Builder brings 12 year old daughter to work

[TinyBuddhettes]

Childcare issues, I get it. This contractor/builder guy is doing up our drive. His daughter mostly stays in his van but yesterday I could see that she was operating the mini digger while he was recording her. This wasn't just a couple of minutes for a photo, it went on for maybe an hour. The two of them were frolicking and being quite stupid really. I was in disbelief watching from inside the house. Our drive is now all digged up and I don't want any awkwardness or the potential of him not finishing the job. Anyone know where we stand with the law? Can we say that from a legal point of view we do not consent to an under 16 being withing the bounds of our property at any point?

Tealpins - she’s fine operating a mini-digger at home but not in the workplace! Read the HSE stuff I linked. IMO it’s fine for to be there and a great thing for her to be doing - apart from operating the machinery. OP does not want to find herself inadvertently liable for any kind of accident.

We used to have a builder/carpenter who brought his son with him at similar age. Son's now around 18yo and working full time along side his dad and is a fantastic workman. He learnt on the job as he went.

I would have thought that HSE would take a very dim view of a child being present on a construction site and operating machinery.

If she was injured they would likely throw the book at him. His insurance company are unlikely to pay out if she caused any damage either.

It's not ideal for a 12 YO to be unsupervised the entire school holidays but there has to be a better solution. One or both of her parents need to take time off work, she needs to go to holiday clubs or similar or they need to make arrangements with friends and family to take turns hosting groups of DC.

Poor kid. I suppose it’s good dad is taking his share of summer childcare to potentially let mum work. Or maybe so he doesn't have to pay maintenance to her if they’re split, which isn’t so good.

yeah id take her in too so she can watch tv. Unless of course it would prevent me wfh if that’s what I’d be doing.

I agree with the suggestion to invite her in. Bur even if you don’t do that, l don’t think it will be conducive to having your job completed well and on time to complain to the contractor.

Allowing him (both of them, really) to use your toilet seems just like common courtesy.

I think we've lost the ability to make appropriate risk assessment if we think it's safer for a child to be operating a mini-digger on a building site than be at home without direct supervision.

Having his daughter in my house because he has a childcare issue he never discussed with us when pricing the job is not acceptable to me, specially when I have made arrangements for my own teens so I don't need to worry about entertaining them so my husband and I can get on with our jobs. He is a contractor we're paying to complete a job, not a mate we're trying to help.
Apart from feeling sorry for the poor kid, I don't have a problem with her staying in the van, that's public property and nothing to do with me. The frolics on my drive do concern me though.

Op and DH are working from home, they are not there to provide free childcare

I had someone once turn up with a toddler.

I grew up on a farm so slightly different, when I was 12 and under I used to sit my 10 year old sister on the bonnet of the mini tractor (Kuboto if anyone is interested, not 100% on the spelling! )and drive up and down the lane unsupervised for entertainment.
We also used to sit in the bucket of the dump truck when we were going to repair the fence if it was a long way away, conserved energy for the job!
I won't continue with my list of dangerous things I did as a child but I will say I grew up to be tremendously practical and unflappable, if I am panicking the world is probably ending.
It isn't ideal that this is happening on OPs drive especially considering her views on the subject but all I would see is a dad trying to work and keep his daughter entertained over the very long summer holidays.

Wow. What were they doing?

Reallybadidea- no one is saying it is safer for the girl to use a minidigger at home but that it is legal for her to do so and illegal at a workplace. HSE investigations are tough and very stressful - op needs to protect herself by ensuring that the law is followed on her property, regardless of any sentimental thoughts.

I remember going on domestic jobs with my dad almost 50 years ago and those memories really stuck in my head. I remember the householders being very nice to me while I was “helping” my dad.

I would be ok with this, my boys have ‘worked’ over many school holidays, she might be taking over her dads business when she’s older. Personally id turn a blind eye. I know a few contractors who take their kids , but they usually have to work not sit in the van!

wrong age for a holiday club probably

i guess it is better for her than being left home alone

Has he got up to date insurance?

Is her being there causing any problems? Probably not. Maybe he is paying her pocket money to give him a hand.
Are you self employed? Do you know the struggles of childcare when self employed? Probably not!
My partner had to take our 2.5 year old daughter with him to a job he was doing recently. The customer was nothing but lovely, happy, let her play in the garden, let her sit with their dog, gave her a drink and biscuits! This is exactly how I would expect someone to act. Yes having a child on site is not ideal, but do you want the job doing or not? She is causing you no issues, no danger, shes hardly clinging off scaffold - leave her be. He will have public liability, he will fully understand if anything happens accident wise it falls on him and not you as his customer. You dont know the actual reasons why she's having to be at work with him!

Love it! My partner also took our toddler to a job he was doing last week as we had no other option. It was either he loses a days pay and the job is delayed or she happily goes with him! The customer was nothing but joyful to see a 2.5 year old pass her Dad the odd tools. They let her play in their garden, they introduced their dog to her and they also gave her biscuits and a drink! We love nothing but understanding customers when it comes to situations like this! It reminds us why he loves doing the job he does!

I thought as a society we wanted men to step up and we wanted more girls to think outside the box and do things other than obsess over their bodies and looks?

'Not in my front yard' it would seem.

Has he got up to date insurance?

Insurance won't cover a 12yo operating machinery illegally. OP's household insurance probably won't cover it either, if any damage or injury is caused by her being there.

I’m not sure I’d have a problem with this as long as it didn’t affect the quality of work or the length of time.

It’s how kids learn their parent’s trade.

The LA and HSE as well as his insurance will have a very dim view on his daughter coming to work with him and "working" onsite. Not sure on their view of her sat in the van. There are very important safety and insurance considerations. If the digger is a rental, it will absolutely come with strict operation instructions in regards to age and in some cases qualifications of the person using it. At 12 she is too young to be passed off as an apprentice as well. Realistically he needs to find something more suitable than his DD sat in the van all day whilst he is on the job. Even more so if she's bored and his entertainment is letting her on the worksite "playing" with equipment.

Equally according to my SIL 11- 13 is a nightmare of an age for childcare. Too old for lots of the holiday clubs , but too young to be at home by themselves for hours at a time all day everyday. One of her DS's is 11, one 12, one 13 and she is really struggling to find childcare this summer. Most childcare provision is 5-11 and even at 11 they are the oldest there and the activities are often aimed at around age 8 so it all feels a bit babyish. Her 11 yr old doesn't want to go to football camp because it's "babyish". As preteens they are able to manage and quite happy to manage at home (usually gaming) for a couple of hours but really need someone checking in or about for an hour or 2 around lunchtime (mainly to make sure they are dressed/ fed/ generally ok). Then will sculp off out to their mates or out with mates for a few hours but again need an adult checking in with them or somewhere to come back to. This is sustainable a couple of days a week but she said they would really struggle with all day, 5 days a week on their own with just a check in at that age.

As for arranging for them to go to friends houses, most builders and trades start work at 8/8.30am. No-one wants their 12 year old's mate rocking up to their house at 8am in the holidays. Possibly mates for the afternoon but very few people want a house full of teens or preteens every day of the holidays. They do get noisy and silly after a few hours and if parents are trying to work they can do without it.

Honestly those of you implying she's learning the trade, she isn't, she's using the digged up drive as a playground. And so is he in some ways.

Fuck being awkward. I would expect him to a legally-binding waiver ASAP before he is paid a penny, threaten to report him to local council and governing building licensing authority (I am not in UK.) if necessary. This guy is taking the piss.

I would print up the waiver to specifically exclude you from responsibility for accidents or injury caused by him bringing unauthorized children or adults onto your property, and acknowledging and accepting his legal responsibility for damages incurred by unauthorized people and any damages incurred as a result of unauthorized or unlicensed of machinery on your property.