Did some ND children starve before chicken nuggets were invented?

[BusWankers]

I'm not being horrible, genuinely curious.

You read on here how a child who has autism or some other issue, will only eat safe foods. Usually a lot of things like chicken nuggets, a particular brand of cheese and onion crisps, Nutella, supermarket pizzas (UPF mostly)

Do we think children in the 1920s just went hungry? Or perhaps they were forced to eat foods they didn't like. After all you do hear stories,of adults even now being made to sit at the table and choke down food etc.

Going back many years now but this book is very good and explains restricted eating from those on the spectrum who could explain it.

Cant Eat, Won’t Eat.
by Brenda Legge.

In that case why aren’t you eating green veg, beans and pulses? Or is it okay if your needs are pandered to, as long as everyone elses needs are ignored?

(edited due to shit spelling)

No it isn't.

It doesn't matter whether your comment has been 'liked' or not. It doesn't change the fact that eating and autism is complex and often has critical clinical consequences.

Anorexia has a significant overlap with autism and is considered the 'most deadly' of mental illnesses. When an autistic person 'won't' eat, it's not just a case of waiting it out 'until they're hungry'.

I am not diagnosed ND. I didn’t speak until I was around 5 and the world felt like a terrifying place. I was very restricted in what I’d eat and I remember feeling a deep sense of shame and failure (as I now recognise it) that I could not eat what was being given. Is gag, or it would get stuck, my throat just would not work. I didn’t want to be a nuisance, I wanted to be invisible as being paid attention to or observed (still does) felt physically painful. My mum used to apologise for me all the time. My relationship with food has been difficult.

I was also poorly constantly as a child, my immune system simply didn’t do what it should. I remember the GP visiting in the night many times. Tonsillitis, chest infections, measles, multiple rounds of chicken pox, post viral syndromes and then as a teenager years of glandular fever and reruns of it. I do wonder if there was some link to the very restricted nature of my early diet. But at least I didn’t starve to death.

as an adult people accept me for who I am, just the person who buys her safe drinks in bulk and has panic attacks if they aren’t available. With food it’s almost as though weaning took 25 years, I still have a huge list of foods I won’t eat, or am very rigid over, but I can find something on a menu and eat most “family favourites”, but struggle if I haven’t controlled it or cooked it or if there is a “wrong” ingredient.

this thread has been very interesting for me to consider how much shame and embarrassment I have towards eating. Even now when people are very forgiving (openly).

I don't think "well they would have starved" is quite the gotcha some posters think it is. Children can, and do, starve, even nowadays, even in the midst of plenty.

This

It's not that difficult

I was born in the late 80s and was lactose intolerant. I'm not sure what I was fed on. I did grow out of it and was lactose intolerant again around 7. And had soya milk which was horrible!

I now don't drink cows milk (it really doesn't help my asthma) and I'm glad we have a much better selection of milks

I am also (changed details for anonymity) working with an 80 year old at the moment who has a feeding tube due to her highly restricted food intake. These days she would probably be diagnosed with ARFID but has gone through life eating very little and being a tiny little lady.

It was always around. The food choices might have been different - but the condition was always there.

A lot of children would die young for various reasons and as others have said, failure to thrive.

As others have said there wasn't the variety of food available. People who say, "We have been eating bread for centuries and only now are people gluten intolerant".

But for most of our history the bread we have eaten has been whole wheat and mostly it would be flat breads so not so much kneading.

Recipes would be handed down through families and for the poor cooking would be limited.

When school meals were introduced they were fairly basic, porridge and maybe some bread and dripping.

When I went to school in the 1970s there was no choice of meal at primary school and at secondary only two. If you didn't like what was served you just went hungry.

At the start of WWI lots of volunteers were rejected as being malnourished.

I don’t drink tea or coffee or eat cereal so haven’t ever ventured into alternatives. The idea of trying one is a bridge too far for my restrictive nature, so that’s positive! I do manage some yoghurt, cheese and butter but also have ibs/d so…

@Pricelessadvice your opinion is irrelevant and you don’t speak for all autistic people. “Likes” are hardly surprising, when so many people are ignorant dicks when it comes to ND.

DS8 is as autistic as you like. His food issues started at 6 months old when he refused finger foods and dribbled up puréed anything while crying inconsolably. He will eat 5 things now, and 4 of them are beige. Thank fuck he still drinks milk by the gallon. Nothing green has ever passed his lips.

When DS was 4, he was PEG fed for a while. Do you seriously think I would have allowed his medical team to put my child under, and make a cut in his little abdomen with a scalpel, if a viable alternative solution was available? Do you think doctors would take that risk if all it actually took was a few days of Mexican stand-off and a few stern words from me?

I can tell you what happened in the 1970's. They felt sick at the thought of school dinners and they would sit there not eating until everyone else had left the hall. Once they ate two bowls of strawberry yoghurt and felt very proud. Eventually they had to have packed lunches - two quarter sandwiches with salmon paste and half a twix.

They would eat tomato juice warmed up with a bit of sugar and butter and they would dip bread into it. That was their breakfast every day. It's very nice actually - they still eat it occasionally.

They would also eat 'Grandma's special soup', which was potatoes and carrots in stock and they'd eat the middle out a lamb chop cut into tiny pieces.

They'd be weighed every day by their worried grandad and they were 2 stones 10lb for many weeks.

Is that ok for you? People in the 'olden days' also fussed over their children and grandchildren. There is hope though: I did start to eat a varied diet and was eating most things by the age of 25. I started liking vegetables when I started going for Chinese meals and realised they could taste nice.

It tends to be a particular colour of food, so probably white bread, potatoes and milk. Ice cream perhaps.

People often stumble across things when in desperation they try anything until they find something their dc will eat. If you knew anything about ARFID you’d know unlike simply a picky eater, they will starve themselves to the point that their growth can be stunted and they can suffer the sort of illnesses those with deficient diets cause. There have even been deaths.

@IAmQuiteNiceActually it’s not always something they grow out of. I had a great uncle who ate a jam sandwich or sausage and mash every single day for his whole life. Obviously undiagnosed, but obviously ND with hindsight. I’m a human dustbin with food, so it wasn’t until DS was born that I made the connection.

This is my family - also in wider family with eating issues like anorexia, allegies and food intolerances are also very common and wider sensory issues.

My Dad and his parents coped well bland working class diet - then he was seriously ill and in hopsital a year - there they were awful round food saying he couldn't see his Mum if he didn't clear his plate. He left hospital plump and with weight problems that he'd battle for rest of his life. He used to say he ate things he hated first.

My Dmum has disorded eating - and huge textural issues.

I do wonder if this is why in DH and my family the "good eater" as kids is so praised - which given Dad weight issues was a problem for me. I suspect my relatives are on the fringes and more extreme presenations in past died - if not from resticted diet itself from illness suspectblity due to malnourishment.

I did nagivate food allergies/intolerance texture issue and get them on a good varied diet - I'd say as teens they actually got much more fussy with food - while at same time there palate expanded to like more adult tastes like mushrooms - so been confusing and irriating to cook for.

Well growing up in the 80s I had to finish my plate. My mum used to cook boiled potatoes with no flavouring. Just gravy. I hated thrm so much from being forced to eat them that I developed a lifelong hatred of boiled potatoes. Can't even smell them now. I also used to stuff them in places when she went out the room and pretend I had eaten them.
Parenting was different and in the generations before even more strict. Ruling by fear.
Nowdays kids have autonomy, aren't scared of being whacked and shouted at. Therefore, if a kid refuses to eat something there is very little you can do about it.
Back in the previous times the punishments were harshm eat the potatoes hot or sit there until they were cold and eat them. Or get sent to your room with a whack and get them served cold the next day.

I think we pathologise a lot more. And given what we know about mental illnesses and food restriction, I can imagine that the worst possible thing to do with someone "not eating" is put them under intense scrutiny....

Do wild animals have this problem?

Well said.

Same. I was diagnosed two years ago but suspected for a long time. If my parents had “pandered” to me the way I have for my daughter, my relationship with food would be much healthier. And so would my body.

You simply can't live 60+ years eating only chicken and potatoes.

My dh who is totally nt only ate fish fingers and ready brek as a child for but he grew out of it and now enjoys a really wide range of diverse foods and has done for years. I think some children (nt) just go through this phase. I wonder would children who were "fussy eaters" back then be labelled as having Arfid in the present day. Autism just didn't seem to be present as a child. I I started school in 1978 and all through Primary and Secondary I never encountered it. Clearly, there most have been children who were nd but they weren't visible so maybe diagnosis was poorer back then.