Does anyone recognise this trait in theirselves or someone they know.

[Theogpinkponyclub]

My middle daughter (16) is an amazing person, she is kind, funny, physically strong and very capable, academic etc etc, obviously I am very biased being her DM but she has always done very well in school and also excels in her sport/hobby,

however…

She has the highest regard for herself, more than anyone I have ever met, she has a small friend group and had a few boyfriends over the years but she will cut them off without so much as a backward glance if their values don’t align with hers. Often it’s things that you would hope your DC wouldn’t accept, cheating, bullying off others but sometimes it’s things like their approach to learning or their motivation to reach potential which to me is a bit much. She can also be very critical of any kind of approach to life she deems weak,

We have called her “The Oracle” (sarcastically) since she was around 8 as she says more than most and is very honest in saying she believes if she has the skill set of another individual she’d be able to do their job, hobby, skill better than they could. This is not said in a boasting away but as matter of fact.

As an aside, she can be very kind, is actually amazing to have in an emergency or a situation that involves talking through anything, she is a great tutor to her younger sister for maths and has a lovey way when explaining things but there is probably some ND there as she is very into number sequences (could be obscurely outing) like collecting bus numbers up to a 100 she spots etc (we like to point out she is very cool!!!)

I guess I just wonder where she will end up… I don’t worry about her succeeding necessarily but I do hope that she ends up happy with people around her that love her and accepting. I wondered if anyone recognised any of these traits in theirselves can tell me how life went for them.

I've seen this in a couple of ND relatives, and friends I've known since childhood.

They don't see what the point would be of remaining friends with someone who doesn't agree with them about everything or approach life exactly the way they do.

They often start from the assumption that everyone knows what they do / is interested in what they're interested in / shares the same (fairly rigid) rules for living, and if it emerges that there is any divergence in knowledge, interest, or way of life, it can be very puzzling or enraging to them - and the other person is immediately dismissed as wrong or faulty.

(I tend to just let them talk at me and not tell them anything about my own life or interests or opinions. They never ask me anything about myself, ever, so it's easy 😂!)

None of these people in adulthood have what I would call close friendships, though one has a longstanding marriage that seems to work well for both partners. But they have lots of people they share hobbies and activities with, which is mainly what they want from other people's company anyway, as far as I can tell.

Work is the major source of friction and stress in their lives - to hear them tell it, collaboration is impossible when nobody meets your basic standards / everyone around you is an idiot who needs correcting.

But overall they've all found ways to be fulfilled and happy.

Thank you @VoltaireMittyDream that’s really interesting.

Sorry, I realise I didn’t put any of that very well but what I meant to get across is that I know several very clever, capable people with high opinions of themselves and social styles that put them a bit outside the mainstream but they’ve all got social lives and relationships that they are happy with and people (including me!) who care about them.

DS, 15, is autistic and won't remain friends with anyone who kills or harms an insect. He says it's just as deplorable in his book as, say, throwing stones at cats and his choice not to be friends with fly-squashers is exactly parallel to my stipulation that no one I am friends with throws stones at cats.

I wonder if your DD was a boy whether anyone would see these traits as problematic? She sounds like many, many high achieving men and boys that I know (who are btw also not ND).

Being “modest” and socially not putting yourself forward (or even making a show of putting yourself down) is a trait that is highly gendered and women are socialised to do this. Men are socialised to prioritise career and their own personal trajectory/values over personal relationships - I bet nobody would bat an eyelid about a boy who was ruthless at cutting people off if they didn’t align with his values: he’d be thought of instead as a visionary, a leader, an Alpha!

Your DD sounds great and like she has many many positive traits. I would be proud of her self-worth and drive. Young women are finally getting the chance for proper equality in life, and that also means jettisoning some of the self-deprecation and people-pleasing that women have been socialised into.

Try to think of these as positive things for your DD. I’ve spent so many years of my life trying to smile and smile and please people I didn’t even like, putting myself down, and thinking I’m not good enough — and seeing far less talented men sail past me because they weren’t spending their time trying to make other people like them, putting themselves down, or wasting time on users and false friends. Most women only start living for themselves at midlife or later. I admire that your DD is doing it young. These are leadership traits and good self-belief that will serve her very well in life!

Yes… I know people like this

But I also people that won’t talk to you because of money, status, car, income, skin colour, gender or sexuality

overall I think your daughter is ok … but I’d say… I found it useful to network with most people. You never know when things or people become useful to you in life.

@Theogpinkponyclub . Your DD sounds exactly like one of my DS. He’s at Uni and thinks he is autistic. He’s quite certain tbh after discussions with tutors ( Science/ medicine dept).

Interesting. How would be feel about fumigation etc if his house became infested with hundreds of carpet moths that ate all of his clothes and carpets and bred at thousands every few months?

How does that work in a situation like ants in the house where ant killer needs to be used, or someone eating meat?

I think it’s a good shill to have especially in women as we see on here in both work and professional lives we often put up with nonsense and get ridden roughshod.

as long as she isn’t rude self confidence is wonderful and useful. Better to come from within than seek it from others.

Is that you, Doria Ragland?

I think I am a bit like this, though have not always been. At school and during young adulthood, I tried to conform to societal norms expected of women. I’m a high achiever, academically.

I am 44 now. Professionally, I have nowhere near reached my potential and am plodding along in a job I cannot stand - though about to go on a career break.

I have really struggled to get on with people in my current workplace and there have been some interpersonal challenges in previous ones too - though nothing as bad as now. I am a lawyer, a logical thinker and highly organised - but I tend to disrespect people I think are not as organised as I am.

I loathe working in open plan spaces (have to wear can headphones most of the time as I hate office noise), I hate illogical management decisions like my current employer’s mandate that we come into the office 40% of the time to enable greater “collaboration”, even though we choose when we want to come in so members of my team are never in at the same time - which means we cannot collaborate.

I cannot stand spineless management and call out unfairness whenever I see it.

I have a quick mind and can really make people laugh.

I suspect I am autistic and have tried to mask my entire life.

However, I am happily married to an extrovert, professionally successful man (despite some challenges in our almost 10 year marriage).

Pretty much the same here (though I left law to run my own business, which was a good decision). I also, whether it’s related or not, have Level 2 autism / moderate needs.

I don’t think it’s a wholly bad temperament especially for a girl/woman. But I’d work with her to introduce the idea of skill and mastery achieved over time - what does good leadership look like? What does working together well look like? And so on. Otherwise she may well go through life thinking that she has to carry the world on her shoulders, professionally and possibly in domestic/romantic relationships too.

I've met people like that yes, as they tend to not be as great as they think they are. Rigid thinking and needing their egos stroked that they are so wonderful when really they have good traits and weak traits like everyone else.

Can you challenge some of her views? So if she drops people for having perceived weaknesses point out that she has those too and might not have realised it. Or point out her privilege that has led to certain achievements that others might not have had. I know we should try to build children’s confidence but this girl sounds like she borders on narcissism and someone at some point will put her in her place and she might find it harder to accept than if you teach her that everyone has their flaws, including her.

Some of those traits are ok, eg confidence, but your DD will struggle unless she develops more empathy and less egotism. I have a child with ASD who does similar, not with friends so much as ‘always being right’ and not considering others, which can come across as quite unkind sometimes even though DC is not unkind. I know it’s hard but you need to constantly be trying to teach empathy and reminding your DD she’s not the best/always right.

I’ve found the best way to do this is by gentle but direct questioning, trying to encourage thinking, both self-reflection and about others’ points of view and feelings. As an aside, I don’t think calling her ‘the oracle’ is a good idea at all, even jokingly. That encourages conceit not modesty.

Really work on this now and I think she’ll find things easier in life.

She sounds like me.

I'm now in my 40s. I've got a successful career and I'm in a senior well paid role - it has been helpful that I'm very good at being straightforward with people and quite resilient, but I've definitely had to teach myself empathy to be any good at people management, which doesn't come naturally and which I don't enjoy.

I'm happily married and have been with my husband for 20 years. Again, brutally clear communication and holding myself in high regard has helped me with that!

Apart from DH, I would say I have quite standoffish relationships with everyone else in my life. I have a few local mates who I see 1-on-1 every few weeks. I don't have any old friends and have always struggled with deep friendships.

I strongly suspect I'm autistic, for this and many other reasons.

Your post reminded me of someone I met briefly through work. She was a nurse and had autism.

She was quite open about the fact that she would quickly become bored by others if she didn't feel they were as intelligent as her -
she just didn't feel they could offer her any intellectual stimulation, and therefore couldn't see the point in talking to them. She would be quite happy to challenge people at work if she did not feel things were being done correctly, or to her standard, even the doctors and more senior members of staff. So I suppose from a professional point of view she was very good and efficient at her job. But on a personal level it was quite difficult to like her as a person and she appeared quite judgemental.

I’d add OP - from her point of view being right / correct may be the only consideration. I would slowly work with her to understand that the people who get ahead at work and frankly in life in most cases are people who can get the best out of others, cooperate etc.

PPs’ comments about rigid thinking are very insightful. I tend to be judgemental, unforgiving and need constantly to remind myself that nobody’s perfect (me included, obvs).

To be human is to be flawed.

I’ve taught students like this. It is like the opposite of imposter syndrome.

I’ve also worked with people like this. They generally do very well in interviews and getting good jobs. But then sometimes they are ‘found out’ as being completely unsuited for the job. Or sometimes they get promoted to a point where they can be incompetent and get away with it.

If she continues to behave like this she is likely to experience challenges with relationships at work and in personal life. At school and university it can be much easier to find new friends when we lose them than it is later on.

It will piss off people who don’t already know and like or love her.

‘This is not said in a boasting away but as matter of fact’: it is groundless, hypothetical boasting, unless / until she has tried and succeeded at the things. Not at all good behaviour.

While I agree with others that there might be some autistic traits here, I do also think some of this might be the 'arrogance of youth'. Teenagers often don't have fully developed empathy, can be very self centred. They are often both judgemental and certain there is one right way of doing things - the two go hand in hand - through a lack of life experience. I guess what I'm trying to say is that while some of this might be her fundamental self, that doesn't mean she won't continue to grow and change as a person. When you're picturing the future for her: she won't always be like she is at 16.

I actually think the positives of these traits outweigh any negatives. Having strict boundaries about who she dates, in particular, isn't a negative - it's her absolute right.

Having confidence in her own ability to do hobbies, jobs or skills - either she's correct, in which case fantastic, or she's over-estimating herself in which case at some point she'll find this out and reassess when she tries to do something and finds it more difficult than expected.

16 is still very young - she will develop life-experience and learn when it's the right time to blow her own trumpet and when it's the right time to be more reserved.

But on the whole I think we need more confident young women who aren't afraid to admit to their abilities - that's how we will eventually narrow the "gender pay gap" and get more women in senior roles in business.

It is great that she has strong principles regarding cheating, bullying...
Her confidence, discipline and drive are great.
You need to make her work on acceptance of others. Maybe they are not as good as your DD at X, but they could be much better than your DD at Y. She needs to look at the overall package and get her head around that we are all different and grow at different paces. Dumping a good friend for lack of ambition at 14 is too much. This could give her serious problems at work or friendships later on in life.
Regarding the I can do better, I would follow that with a Oh, OK, show me.
If she is really brighter than her peers, she may need higher education targets or she will get bored.