Does anyone recognise this trait in theirselves or someone they know.

[Theogpinkponyclub]

My middle daughter (16) is an amazing person, she is kind, funny, physically strong and very capable, academic etc etc, obviously I am very biased being her DM but she has always done very well in school and also excels in her sport/hobby,

however…

She has the highest regard for herself, more than anyone I have ever met, she has a small friend group and had a few boyfriends over the years but she will cut them off without so much as a backward glance if their values don’t align with hers. Often it’s things that you would hope your DC wouldn’t accept, cheating, bullying off others but sometimes it’s things like their approach to learning or their motivation to reach potential which to me is a bit much. She can also be very critical of any kind of approach to life she deems weak,

We have called her “The Oracle” (sarcastically) since she was around 8 as she says more than most and is very honest in saying she believes if she has the skill set of another individual she’d be able to do their job, hobby, skill better than they could. This is not said in a boasting away but as matter of fact.

As an aside, she can be very kind, is actually amazing to have in an emergency or a situation that involves talking through anything, she is a great tutor to her younger sister for maths and has a lovey way when explaining things but there is probably some ND there as she is very into number sequences (could be obscurely outing) like collecting bus numbers up to a 100 she spots etc (we like to point out she is very cool!!!)

I guess I just wonder where she will end up… I don’t worry about her succeeding necessarily but I do hope that she ends up happy with people around her that love her and accepting. I wondered if anyone recognised any of these traits in theirselves can tell me how life went for them.

Sounds like a typical teenager to me. Or maybe I should say a stereotypical teenager.

I've come across it a little in high achieveing ND women. Have managed some. They just need to be taught when to soften it. People for example cannot be reprimanded in a public office in front of people , does not go down well (saw that happen and had to mention it). But otherwise just let them be them. Im not a fan of telling women to ' make themselves smaller' as men don't get held go this standard.

I think I work with a bloke like this. I say "work with" very loosely because he's actually impossible to work with. He's lovely to chat to socially, and he's (happily?) married. In work though, he has no empathy for the predicaments of people more senior to him & the fact that a lot of the job of senior people is diplomacy with stakeholders in other departments which means they have to compromise on what we do - he thinks anyone who compromises for the sake of getting a job done is an idiot. Our job is mostly coding, which should all be reviewed by another coder, but he just can't seem to do it and never gets his own code reviewed, even though he (seems to be?) very good at coding on his own. He talks in a very weird way - using mathematical/scientific language unnecessarily, I assume to make himself look cleverer than he is, and it works, but it means no one really understands what he's saying, making him even more difficult to work with. If people don't agree with him, then they are absolutely wrong (in his head), and he kind of implies, without actually saying it, that these people are stupid. TBH if we could sack him, we would I think, but he's very slippery and manipulative and knows that it's virtually impossible to sack anyone.

Thanks all, such a great response. I actually find her character really interesting and of course I’m glad she had good morals & ethics and won’t stand for any BS when it comes to how she is treated or perceived but share some of the concerns that lots of you have pointed out as ultimately I want her to be happy.

She also wants to do law and has since she was really little, I definitely think her personality type would work well in that career as she is good at being unbiased and can compartmentalise well, however is still only 16 so things may change.

She is at a competitive Grammar school so is in a pool of very bright children and for that reason has always been pushed academically however as parents we have always felt we have to take pressure away from her than push more as she can also be very self critical of herself which I don’t think is always healthy in young teenage years, her current obsession is a Russell Group uni and ultimately getting the A level grades to achieve that goal.

She is not a huge conversationalist, can often be lazy with her speech if talking to us mere parents/siblings, I feel she believes it’s just waste of her time trying to talk/explain the obvious, however can articulate very well if she deems to conversation valuable/interesting she will make an effort with grandparents, family friends etc but often excuses herself at the earliest point without being rude.

She can be really quirky, funny, she LOVES drama which she is predicted a 9 for at GCSE and is taking as A level and also has a passion for musical theatre so there is a lot of creativity there and I’m glad off as good outlet for her her other sport/hobby is quite a series, competitive one and takes up a lot of her time but she loves it and has worked hard to get to where she is.

I will keep an eye on the empathy and arrogance levels as I wonder if I can help with balance there but like I said in my PP she is not showy or boastful just quietly confident and sure that she could succeed at something better than the person doing it so it’s quite hard to reason with her.

As a side note she scores very highly on the psychopathy test but she’s more of an introvert than an extrovert and thankfully there is some empathy there so I don’t need to hide the knifes before we go to bed!! (Clearly a joke!!)

The word you’re looking for, is that she can be arrogant at times.

My top tip is practising empathy: how might other people be feeling? It’s not all about me all the time.

This is good advice. The trait is there that doesn’t mean it can’t be worked on over time. I’ve come across it too.

Your DD sounds very much like me. Also like my nephew who has an autism diagnosis and has the same bus hobby!

If she is ND, you may find that she struggles more with A-Levels because they rely on a lot more executive functioning than GCSEs. This may not become apparent until exam time.

I am in my 50s and have recently been diagnosed with autism and ADHD. It would have made my life so much easier if I had been diagnosed at around the age of 16. Although it would not have been possible in those days.

I would speak to your GP and request a 'right to choose' referral.

It is more important to get an ADHD diagnosis because that is treatable with drugs, which are incredibly effective. Although I would still go for the autism diagnosis too. And incidentally, according to my consultant psychiatrist who diagnosed me with ADHD, anyone with an autism diagnosis can be diagnosed with ADHD. Although if you read about this online, it will give you figures like '80% of autistic people also have ADHD'.

So I got BEE in my A Levels. I suspect I would have got BBB if I had been on ADHD medication.

@dizzydizzydizzy thank you, I’m glad you found the right to choose referral route, we are on it with my youngest DD and it has been a game changer in terms of ease to time of gaining an assessment and diagnosis.

I’ve taught in an SEMH school (for pupils with social, emotional and mental health difficulties) for 16 years. Many of our pupils are ND and from my experience, I would like to offer a couple of alternative points:

Have you considered she could have low self-esteem which is why she’s ‘bigging herself up” all the time? If she’s in a grammar school there’s always going to be people who are better than her and the nature of grammar schools is always very competitive (even if they aren’t sold in that way to parents - my 2 sons both went to a grammar so it’s not a criticism). Maybe she feels she isn’t as good as her peers so has to ‘play the game’ and become the person she thinks she should be. I have worked with a huge number of children who think and act in this way. This is so much more common in teenagers than we think it is and yet they present in the opposite way, bragging, putting others down and suggesting they could do things better. Social media really plays into their doubts btw. The sudden exclusion of people within their group also gives them a feeling of power which helps build their own self-esteem and social status, but only for a limited time. Perhaps she’s showing people the person she thinks she should be, with the traits she thinks they would like in a friend (eg. confident, skilled, ambitious etc.)

Have you also considered that in the psychology test she took, she was smart enough to answer the questions as she thought they should be answered rather than how she actually thinks and feels? This would then show a level of empathy that isn’t actually there. If she’s as smart as you say, she’ll easily work out the ‘correct’ answers and if she’s ND she might very probably give answers that mask her true thoughts and feelings. This is why psychology tests don’t really work for everyone.

I’m with him. I can’t stand people squashing bugs.

Yes I knew someone like this. He ended up very alone and very bitter. Still doesn’t see what he’s done wrong in life. Everyone else is the idiot.

This isn’t a good representation or take of DD’s character

To start with she never brags, she also doesn’t “big herself up” and I wouldn’t say she is ever mean to others. She doesn’t take joy in ridiculing others, and she finds teenage drama stressful and boring. She just removes herself very easily if things don’t align with what she agrees with and regardless of history, friendship or can do without a hint of emotion.

Her confidence and perceived ability is quiet, she isn’t shouting it from the rooftops or constantly comparing herself to others she will just tell you she is better in same way she would say she had two legs or 10 toes.

I didn’t mean to offend you in any way if I did. It was just another perspective from my experience. From what you’ve explained, it sounds very much like it’s not your daughter though.

I know a woman in her late 20s who was quite like this as a teen. She definitely went through a stage of being slightly obnoxious as a result of the arrogance / high self-regard and lack of consideration for others. However she has mellowed, become more empathetic and kinder (those sides always existed, they have just come more to the fore). She is very successful and driven - has a very lucrative job in the City which utilises her skillset (maths) and she’s very active and sporty. She has a good group of friends.

She sounds very normal for her age. 16yr olds are at the peak of optimism and all their life is ahead of them. Having a high regard for herself is great because life will knock her down a bit as she reaches adulthood and you want her to value herself, and hold her boundaries as she matures.

She just removes herself very easily if things don’t align with what she agrees with and regardless of history, friendship or can do without a hint of emotion

Still waters run deep. I would say the emotions are there even if you aren’t seeing them.

Sounds boasty

I worry about one of my sons like this op, very matter of fact, eg if you played table tennis he might say I don’t know there’s a point in us playing because I’d beat you too badly, but he means it! In school he changed project groups because he said they weren’t going to put in the work and he had an a project in mind that others wouldn’t hold him back on. I was relieved he didn’t let them know this, he just made something up but I do always tell him eg about how everyone has their own talents, it’s more about the journey than the result etc. I worry he won’t find a tribe as easy as my other sons might

I hate to say it but my autistic DH is quite like that. He is lovely and kind and will go out of his way for me or our DC. But he is so sure he is brighter than anyone else. His IQ is off the scale - over 170. But that's not the only thing that makes a person intelligent. He was once invited to join a social group in our village. There were about 50 men in the group, he came back from the first session saying they were all boring and stupid and he had nothing in common with them.

All fifty of them? I asked. He just shrugged.

He often makes off the cuff remarks that show he thinks i'm not as clever as him and if I make jokes about me being dim (taking the piss out of him thinking this) he takes them at face value. He's always astounded if I get questions right when watching uni challenge, for instance.

I'm making him sound awful and he isn't in nearly every way, but there is an arrogance about his intellect, and a rigidity. I've also met a lot of autistic peole with very rigid high moral codes who ditch anyone who doesn't meet their exacting standards.

I am one of 3 girls and I also have 3 teenage girls, said DD is nothing like any of us.