What should I do?

[SENsupportplease]

Looking for advice from other parents about a situation at my daughter's school. I don't know if i'm out of order or the school are.

Sorry it's so long I don't want to drip feed.

On Friday my daughter (10) was involved in a nasty incident, group name-calling and nastiness to another child, which she then continued after being asked to stop by her class teacher.

When this was reported to us via telephone, we took it very seriously. Told the school we would deal with it, support them dealing with it, and offered our apologies to the student and parents on DD's behalf. They seemed happy with this and thanked us.

Explained to DD the possible consequences of bullying (teacher did not call it this but we did), started restorative justice (recommended by the school) by getting DD to write an apology letter, and removed her pocket money that week. DD seemed genuinely apologetic.

Later that day was the school fair which we attended as a family, before leaving DS and DD to enjoy it with their friends - normal and acceptable behaviour at our primary.

DD saw the other child at the fair and went to apologise, which he accepted. His mum told DD to go away, which upset her. We explained that it is fair enough that the apology isn't accepted and the mum must be very upset for her son.

Then (we had left by this point) DD was watching the orchestra performance with 2 friends and they had their phones out to record another friend performing. The boys mum and grandma surrounded the three girls, grabbed at DD's phone, shouted at them, told them to "piss off," leaned into their faces, and physically pushed my daughter. By this point one of the other girls was inconsolable.

Not sure if it's relevant but the other girls had not been involved with the initial bullying incident that day.

The girls reported it to their class teacher who told them to move away, which they did. When we went to collect DD we saw how upset her friend was, asked what was wrong, which is when the girls told us what happened. We decided to go back up to the school and report it immediately.

On the way up to the school we passed the other family - DD pointed them out to us, which they overheard, and they came up right into our faces. Shouting "it's been three years of this" and "NOT TODAY". I (bearing in mind i had three upset children there) stayed very calm, acknowledged the awful bullying situation but pointed out it was not appropriate for them to have behaved that way. Grandma in particular was very proud of her behaviour and said it was her who was swearing at the girls. We said we were going to let the school deal with it and left.

We went to the school to report this, the head teacher kept saying "well IF this happened" despite me explaining that the adults had admitted it. She also repeatedly said that she didn't see anything. It felt like she didn't believe the children - or us - at all.

At no point did she acknowledge our complaint about the other adults; instead she started telling the girls off for having their phones out. To be clear, their recording policy is that recording is ok but no uploading or sharing to socials. If they have a different policy for children, they have not made it clear to us as parents, on our website, or to the children. The head almost used it as a way to justify the behaviour of the other adults.

My daughter already struggles with feeling like her teachers don't believe her, and this has made it so much worse. She's now also worried about seeing the aggressive adults outside school.

I've made a written formal complaint to school against the parents, and i've raised my concerns about how the school initially dealt with the report. I've also asked if it has been three years worth of bullying / nastiness involving DD, as the first report I've had about this child and DD was on Friday.

School have come back to me today and said there is no method of making a complaint against other parents. They have ignored my other comments.

Am I overreacting?

How would you expect your child's school to handle something like this? And what should I do now?

DD is Au-DHD and has huge SEMH and impulsivity issues. This is NOT an excuse. Just avoiding dripfeed.

Sadly she probably will ask inappropriate questions about things she doesn’t understand her whole life

and I’m really not sure the punishment (not safe at school, can’t trust teachers, missing a favourite class) fits the crime

what about the other girls? Did the shit show work for them?

Maybe if I shove the mum next time I see her she will learn not to push or swear at kids?

is that how we do things, escalate at every turn?

Of course the other mother and grandmother shouldn’t have shouted and tried to take your DD’s phone away. 100%. They clearly have reason to think it’s been going on for 3 years though. Maybe constant low level bullying such as name calling which has affected the lad. Who knows. But you do seem to be coming across as downplaying your daughter’s part in the bullying of the boy and using her SEN as reasons or excuses.
And I know you said your DD was helping on a stall but if I’d just had a phone call from school like you did, there’s no way I’d have left her there unsupervised, knowing how easily led she seems to be.

Shoving the Mum is a terrible idea. But it sounds like three years of hell as accumulated in this school fete incident. And unfortunately your DD and her innocent friends took the brunt. But she has to own it. Ok so she’s not some spiteful, hard as nails, ring leader, but she has been at the periphery of the bullying and sometimes you get called out by people older, bigger and nastier than you.

I would say to your daughter ‘Let’s draw a line under this now, avoid the girls that have been bullying this poor boy for three years. And avoid the boy. From the reaction of his family, he’s really been through it. You tried to apologise at the fete and it backfired, so lesson learned, we should have just stuck with the formal apology through school. Hopefully we can move on and just remember to be as kind as possible to everyone, like you would want them to be to you when you had people being unkind. I will not be dragged in to dramas like this again.

She was there with different children who have never been part of the problem and who she has always been her best self with.

we don’t tend to have social problems outside of school

I’m not downplaying her part I’m stating factually what school have told me about it.

her SEN is a reason, it is part of the picture, her communication problems are well documented in her SEN plan. But it isn’t an excuse. I do not want DD to make another person feel upset, and definitely not intentionally.

DDs involvement in the Friday school nastiness was dealt with in a way school were happy with. It should have ended there.

The three year accusation is false. And that is what the mums and grandmas behaviour was based on.

Of course it is! It was not a suggestion lol, rather an illustration that one should not do that sort of things to other learn.

Agree with everything else you have said bar the last sentence. I suspect there will continue to be dramas, there have been for years. This is just the first one to have hurt someone else. Hopefully the last.

the challenge with drawing a line is she does not have anyone safe at school she can talk to or trust. Her SEN support worker leaves in a week and she is even more scared of year six than she already was.

It's up to the other girl's parents to raise any issues with the school if they feel they need to. It's really nothing to do with you other than the fact your daughter was with her which caused the incident. I would imagine her parents are telling her to be more cautious with friends now. Schools are not there to referee parents and disputes or even parents and children's disputes. If you feel strongly then you may wish to report this to the police.

They arent. They love DD have known her since before school

and it’s them progressing the complaint. Please don’t blame my DD for causing the incident, she didn’t. The parent and grandma did.

no one has asked them to “referee” but there is a safeguarding concern (according to friend who has asked the LA) as it happened on school grounds at a school event where the kids should feel safe

And the situation is to do with me given that my DD was pushed and shouted at as well. The other parents can’t complain on her behalf.

Afraid to say I’d have got myself into all kinds of trouble with this one. I’m very calm normally but I absolutely know I would have said “touch my kid again, and I’ll fucking floor you”. So in my world you did well to not do that at least.

You’ve either got to let it hopefully blow over now, or escalate it into something even bigger. Or move schools which seems drastic but I’d consider it. I think it really comes down to those three options.

Unfortunately, you can’t control the behaviour of other adults. What you can do is use this incident as a way to educate your daughter that different people react differently in all sorts of situations. In this case, the adults have reacted to their child being hurt, with anger. I would have a chat with her about how actions (hers) have consequences (their anger) but I’d also talk to her about anger being an emotion we cannot avoid, but what’s important is how we express that anger, and that in your opinion, how those adults expressed that anger towards your daughter is wrong.

On a practical level, are you able to accompany your daughter to and from school until things die down and she’s comfortable going alone again? Or at least until the end of term, and then take September as it comes?

That’s just how I’d deal with it, anyway. If those adults think that acting that way towards children is okay (whatever their justification and what’s gone on before), you’ll have a fight on your hands getting them to behave differently in future. Your energy I think is better placed teaching your daughter and doing what you can to help her feel safe for the time being.

I feel sorry for the other innocent girl who is friends with your DD, who was verbally and physically attacked for no reason.

As for your DD, yes, it's unlikely that she's been bullying this boy for 3 years, but I'd say getting confronted like that was an example of "reap what you sow." It's a big wild world out there, off the primary school playground.

They are adults. They attacked a ten year old girl and were proud of it afterwards. What is wrong with people?

Thank you I really appreciate this very calm and measured response. We do take and collect as she lacks road safety, her fears of seeing them outside school are irrational and unlikely - but when she has a thought it’s quite hard to get rid of it.

I agree. I feel sorry for all the kids involved including the boy. I don’t think the adults behaviour has made this easier for him. There have been some nasty comments about the situation made (by other kids, not dd!)

I have ADHD and I can totally appreciate that last point. I’m not surprised she’s feeling that way no matter how irrational and unlikely it might be. Sorry to read her SEN support is leaving and she’s worried about year six.

FWIW, you sound like an attentive and level headed mum who is accountable as a parent and trying your absolute best to support your daughter in life and work alongside her disabilities. I can tell you now that she’ll see that and appreciate that in the future. I think you’re her safe place, and actually that’s the only thing you can actually control in this situation and any others you’ll inevitably find yourselves in in the future.

ETA, carry on advocating for her as much as you can, though, but know when a situation is beyond your control and don’t waste your energy trying to get stupid people to see they’re being stupid. Who was it who said you can’t argue with stupid?

Yes, I agree. And very unfairly imo.

Your latest posts are shocking, it seems that your daughter is becoming traumatized over what was really quite a minor incident. I would keep her off school for the rest of the week. And try to get an appointment with your GP and/or health/social worker to get some professional advice & support to deal with this.

Good luck 🤞

She was already very mentally ill, we have been rejected by CAMHS 4 times now. There are years of on going issues and things other kids deal with well she just doesn’t

im not saying that to excuse her horrible behaviour to the boy.

Someone very smart!

Thank you, I needed to hear that today. I am her safe place

You reap what you sow unfortunately. It’s a lesson she needs to learn .. actions have consequences. I agree they behaved badly but they are probably at the end of their rope with this. Look at how you are reacting to one nasty incident with your child .. up in arms .. they have had to deal with an upset tramatized child for three years.

This isn’t one nasty incident. It’s years of the school being unsupportive.

and she didn’t ‘sow’ this. The consequences are disproportionate.

what about the kids who have been nasty for three years? Where are their physical and verbal attacks?

Amazing the 360 here! In the first post, you admitted she was implicit in that particular instance of bullying, enough so that you deemed it suitable apoligise and to try make reparations, but the end you're saying all she did was ask a question? Doesn't quite add up, does it?

Also. If she's such a rule follower, why was she involved in bullying that kid at all? Hardly in the school handbook, is it?

The goal posts seem to be shifting when you haven't got the sympathy levels you wanted.

She joined in, that was implicit. She was part of a group. What she said and repeated (which I found out later) was unkind. The impact on the boy was distressing and that’s what mattered.

there has been no 360.

she will (mostly, not always!) follow a very direct instruction / not lie. Had someone told her it is unkind to ask about AI girlfriends she wouldn’t have done it.

sadly I can’t predict everything she will say.

no goal posts have shifted; and I still think she was totally wrong for being involved at all; even being there and saying nothing would have been wrong. That does not justify the parents actions and is not what I asked about!

This.

Maybe but it’s telling you can’t see things from their perspective. You are raving about one incident where your child was treated badly but you can’t see why the parents would be at the end of the line after having three years or their child being bullied and treated badly and perhaps why they would over react and behave badly when they see the child you was involved in the latest torment of their child. You need to gain some perspective here .. I can’t imagine being the parent of a child that has been subject to repeated nasty bullying for years .. even if you believe it’s the first time your child has been involved in it I very much doubt it was her first rodeo.. the fact that she was involved in the group incident and then repeated it would suggest otherwise