Is the NHS now about treating 'shi t life syndrome'?

[mids2019]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jul/03/the-guardian-view-on-labours-nhs-plan-it-is-right-to-celebrate-medical-science-but-delivery-is-the-hard-part

A Guardian article but it seems like this push to reduce health inequality is making the NHS look like part of our benefits system. While I agree with good health for all is this strategy going to appeal to a middle class tax payer base who are a lot of their tax going to a struggling NHS with the money ultimately flowing from their pockets to more deprived areas? It seems like the poorer the area the more snazzier and funded your health service will be and I just wonder if ultimately this may too the balance towards a more health insurance based syatem?

I see the standard right wing fantasies about giving out tokens for worthy conduct remains. Extremely degrading, and nothing they would tolerate for themselves.

Most people are happy to pay into a society where we all benefit. However, Starmer has messed up yet again by suggesting a Two-Tier system.

Yup.
‘choice’ politics with its simplistic, naive solutions.

Jamie oliver was full of good intentions but naive imo, "passing it on " is great if you are in the proper mindset to pass it on, that young woman probably had no headspace to teach her community how to cook.

I used to volunteer for a charity, alongside a lot of other middle-class people wanting to help. Their target 'audience' was young, disadvantaged people. There were more 'offerors' than 'needers' and many volunteers never got given a case! It was all a bit embarrassing and I left after a while.

we have a three tier system - those who can pay for everything, those who have enough to take care of themselves with diet and exercise , those whose lives are so fucked up that they can’t do anything but survive

3tier exists / if he wants to lift the bottom up to only have 2 tiers that’s bloody great

better than the policy of the last 15 years where the people at the bottom should be grateful for a sight of the table

You can't force people to participate though, there isnt a firm way to make people engage i know it is difficult and frustrating.

It seems some people want us to return to the days in the 80s when I was at primary school and I would line up in the FSM line and have to go in last and have what was left over and be grateful for at least having a free (and my only) meal of the day.

Slightly o/t but where do you plan to emigrate to?

I am seriously thinking about it. Especially if Reform get in. Issue is work visa’s. I have a decent job that I could do in another country but a) language barrier or b) English speaking countries like USA and Australia the standard of living would be worse, even if I could get a work visa.

i could work remotely but then i will still pay tax and ni in the UK.

This shoukd perhaps be reduced to "pocket money" with vouchers for state run food banks which provide healthy food. It may be more expensive will break the chain of "pies", fans and booze.

All well and good until your child’s school shoes break and you don’t have a voucher for that, or you have a hospital appointment and no voucher to get you there. . Living in poverty is constantly robbing Peter to pay Paul, the food budget is the only place where money can be saved by squeezing the amount or quality of food because the other costs (rent, utilities) tend to be pretty fixed.

I find it interesting that poor people just need to budget better - my parents budgeted down to the last penny but if you don’t have enough money, all the budgeting in the world won’t change that.

Charity is no good unless it’s seen to be done, eh? How grateful you were for that.

These people with their conspicuous good works, why it’s almost self serving and cheap. Almost.

Exactly.

Mist of the people on MN who trumpet these solutions don’t have the first clue of the realities of actually living in poverty.

Yes this is ultimately what they want. I can remember in the 70s my mum was a single parent and on some benefits called social security back then. anyway she had a small p/t job, our house used to be checked every so often to make sure my mum didn't have any men staying and was at home when she said she would be. I was 7or 8 and I can still remember these people coming to the house. This is the sort of treatment they want us to go back to.

My point is that our system isn’t sustainable however much we want it to be. If middle income earners can’t really afford housing or children and have to put up with terrible public services and the hated rich have bunged off what happens then?

It does slightly irritate me when people assume higher earners have never experienced low paid jobs, and have no knowledge of what they are like. Most of them have. Which is why I added the bit about jobs.

I'm on the Internet because I'm having a day of annual leave to deal with some domestic stuff. Usually I work a 45 to 50 hour week and am frankly shattered, at 65, by the time the evenings and weekends come.

You also make the assumption that I do not volunteer or make significant charitable donations already.

What do you do to help others?

Found it here

Telegraph analysis has revealed that ...

Residents of Hart in Hampshire have the highest life expectancy of any local authority in England, Wales or Northern Ireland – just shy of 85 years. This means the average pensioner in Hart will draw their state pension from the age of 66 for 19 years, racking up payments totalling £375,610.

Wealthy areas in London and the home counties including Kensington & Chelsea, Horsham, South Cambridgeshire, Uttlesford and South Oxfordshire follow close behind with a life expectancy of 84 years, long enough to accumulate £347,978 in state pension payments.

By contrast, life expectancy in Blackpool is the lowest of any local authority, at a little over 76 years – a full nine years less than in Hart. The average resident in Blackpool draws their state pension for just 10 years for a total of £165,720 – £209,890 less than residents in Hart.

Usable link: https://archive.ph/kJKxu

Original link:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/pensions/retirees-short-changed-state-pension/#:~:text=Yet%20the%20vast%20discrepancy%20in,in%20the%20most%20deprived%20areas.

I have previously done lots , atm I have ill health so I donate, as I said people are full of bright ideas of vouchers and "pocket money " as if people who are disadvantaged are second class citizens and not actual humans.

I do think there’s a general trend of seeing all taxation and government spending as exclusively for the purpose of wealth distribution, which I don’t actually think should be the purpose of it.
We are paying taxes for services (which increasingly aren’t very good), the state needs to function and add value for everyone, not just those on low incomes.

Yes @MidnightPatrol I agree with this. I am happy for my taxes to go towards a better welfare and state provision for all. But that includes me and mine.

I can't be alone as a lefty ish MC person to want to ensure the vulnerable etc are properly provided for but that I/mine her something for what we put in.

We are a double income family, earning just enough to ensure we don't get child benefit. We both work very full time, pay a fortune in tax, council tax and to childcare. We can't get any NHS dental care, it takes weeks for a GP appointment, our local hospital has massive waiting lists - I was due an appointment last September and haven't even heard from them and DC gets regular texts to see if he'd like to remain on the waitlist.....but never a text with an actual chance to be seen...our DC go to schools that are physically ruined and one has never been in a permanent classroom, with cover teachers for some subjects at secondary, and no trips due to staffing issues, our village regularly floods and no one does anything to sort drainage or road surface damage, there's v poor public transport etc etc etc.

I get that if it's rubbish for us it's much worse for those on lower incomes, but that doesn't stop me wanting it to be better for all of us, and resenting that despite forking out large sums, we have no real services to call on.

@coffeeishot if you disagree with the concept, how odd that you told me tongo and volunteer.

I do agree that money would be better, but it isn't working is it? The most deprived need more tailored help. Also if being given vouchers is dehumanising, perhaps that will encourage those who can into work.

These are people who probably don't have Cookery and household basics under their belts because they have grown up without the support they should have had. I'd like to suggest domestic science re-entered the curriculum but having done it 50 odd years ago I'm not sure that baked apple, rock cakes and batter for pancakes is awfully helpful.

You could say the same about corporation tax. It brings in £88bn a year, not even enough to pay the national debt interest.

These are people who probably don't have Cookery and household basics under their belts because they have grown up without the support they should have had

There are some people who haven’t had the support they need to learn how to cook or run a household, but they need much more than a middle class volunteer swooping in to teach them 5 ways with eggs. Things like Sure Start did good work in this area but was cut, like most preventative services. Supporting someone to learn life skills is relationship based, because the shame of not being able to do what many adults manage can be overwhelming.

In the Jamie Oliver example up thread, I’m guessing that as well as not being able to afford the food or the energy to cook the food, she was anxious about her neighbours seeing her home environment, didn’t have enough cooking utensils or crockery to feed people etc etc. Because it’s never one thing, its many interconnected things - and if you pull one string five others unravel.

Why are you working a 45-50 hour work week at 65? No doubt that will have an impact on your health and you’ll end up draining the nhs. Perhaps you should have made better choices?

Sure start was great.

issue was in my London borough- one that is considered deprived, most sure start programmes filled up with the middle class yummy mummies looking for something to entertain them and their babies/toddlers as sahm.

i went to a couple on mat leave and the people that it was aimed it either couldn’t access the full courses, or went once and never went back as obviously it didn’t meet their needs. they couldn’t join in with the issues of husbands never being home from their 7 figure jobs in the city and how the poors got free childcare, and didn’t they know how hard it was being a “single” parent and god knows they needed the break as well. At least they had these programmes where they could have a cup of coffee and talk to other adults.

Because I like work and that's generally what professional roles require. I have made excellent choices thank you - choices that have given me choices.

I shall not drain the NHS having worked for 45 years, except for seven at home with the children, paying tax at higher rates. Notwithstanding the fact that I shall be able to pay for private care.

Are you always so rude, or do you simply not value work?

It was tongue in cheek as you were talking about the fecklessness of the poor 🤦🏼‍♀️ although if you’re so happy to work such long hours why are you simultaneously complaining about it?