Is the NHS now about treating 'shi t life syndrome'?

[mids2019]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jul/03/the-guardian-view-on-labours-nhs-plan-it-is-right-to-celebrate-medical-science-but-delivery-is-the-hard-part

A Guardian article but it seems like this push to reduce health inequality is making the NHS look like part of our benefits system. While I agree with good health for all is this strategy going to appeal to a middle class tax payer base who are a lot of their tax going to a struggling NHS with the money ultimately flowing from their pockets to more deprived areas? It seems like the poorer the area the more snazzier and funded your health service will be and I just wonder if ultimately this may too the balance towards a more health insurance based syatem?

I know, but it demonstrates quite how unsustainable our system is.

The people I know who work in higher paid jobs have done ‘hard, dirty’ jobs as well. They didn’t just spawn straight into their better paid job. My wealthier friends have done caring jobs in nursing homes, rubbish collection, nursery work, construction work, bar work, cleaning work, shop work, waiting tables, ice cream selling, farm labouring and working on market stalls. They managed to get better paid jobs in the end, but it is a mistake to think that wealthier people have no experience of these jobs.

I'm now middle class, from a working class background and although we may pay more tax and "subsidise" working class areas, the working class being forced to accept below living standard wages subsidises the middle class being given above average wages and especially upper class profits.

People forget how much the working class prop the country on their shoulders for very little. Just look at care work!

I hate threads like these, putting sets of tax-paying working people against each other when the multi millionaire and billionaire classes have obscene amounts of wealth and are absolutley draining our country dry like parasites. A wealth tax could fund absolutley everything, 2% on over 10 million, they'd make that back in interest in less than 6 months!

Why the fuck are we fighting each other over crumbs.

Yes, but some people are never going to be able to get better jobs for whatever reason, and of course, we will always need people to do the dirty low-paid jobs so that others don't have to. So, I think it's kind of disgusting to think they don't deserve as much as people who are more highly paid, especially since people with higher-paying jobs are not always doing the most useful stuff (I know because I am one of them).

What do you want people on low incomes to do about that? Give up all of their earnings and top up benefits?

They are still around in a different guise in my local council. Making no difference whatsoever.

As a higher rate tax payer this is EXACTLY what I want to see. Poverty and its resulting health conditions cost this country millions in health, social care, welfare benefits, lost labour, and that’s ignoring the human costs of misery, long term trauma etc. Prevention targeted where it is most needed is just what we need. Those of you who don’t see this are, well, both thick and a bit evil.

It’s also a mistake and unrealistic to think the solution is for everyone to get better paid jobs and those who don’t deserve a shitty life.

Right, and in their well paid jobs they are also still contributing in lots of ways.
But the way "net contributor" is increasingly used to play grievance identity politics is disingenuous. Lots of people have a feeling that really they (and people like them) are the ones really holding things together. But it goes too far if you let yourself get deceived into the idea that large numbers/the majority of people in other groups are therefore freeloading. From their perspective they can see all the important things they do and you would be the freeloader.

We need people in the kinds of jobs that pay well. We also need high earners who pay tax. But by definition not everyone can/should do those jobs. Not everyone can manage a hedge fund - by definition those jobs are limited. And if everyone managed a hedge fund then nothing else would get done. Some jobs should pay more for sure. But you are never going to get a situation where everyone working is a "net contributor" in income tax terms. Expecting that is as financially illiterate as thinking everyone should earn above average.

So phrases like "people make the choice not to be high earners" is silly, especially combined with the idea that it's somehow less moral/freeloading to be a care assistant not a hedge fund manager. And care assistants, Amazon delivery drivers, cleaners all deserve healthcare regardless of wether or not they eventually make it into your income bracket.

I think we need to look at what causes the deprivation and I'll health and deal with that. There have now been generations afforded the dignity of being given money to spend on what they want. This shoukd perhaps be reduced to "pocket money" with vouchers for state run food banks which provide healthy food. It may be more expensive will break the chain of "pies", fans and booze. Especially if delivered alongside life skills like: cooking, cleaning, parenting, financial management, for all those eligible and which should become mandatory if participating in any social welfare and economic scheme.

I never said that. I’m pointing out that that our current system is simply not sustainable, however much we want it to be.

What would be your solution you seen keen to say unsustainable etc etc but what do you want to happen to disadvantaged people ?

And what about if your only access to cooking facilities is a microwave? Or just a kettle? Or you have an oven but can’t afford the electricity tokens to run it?

Yes that's a perfect solution pocket money and vouchers, that will definitely work !

Read my first sentence.

As the saying goes " The trouble with Socialism is that in the end you run out of other people's money to spend"

Life skills! are you prepared to volunteer to help young people develop life skills ?

And what is your solution?

Working people who earn low wages should do what, exactly?

What makes you think that those who do qualify for benefits are receiving plenty of money?

Well yes, but by that measure highly paid senior doctors are also net beneficiaries because even though they pay considerable tax their wages are paid through the state.
A private business owner who does subcontractor work for the UK is a net beneficiary since some of their income comes directly or indirectly through the government l.
Someone who earns a good income through their growing software company is a net beneficiary because without the infrastructure provided by the government, the schooling and healthcare given to their employees and customers their business would be unable to function. Regulation and the court system means they know that contracts they sign are binding and vice versa. Spending on defense means France won't invade and take all their stuff.

It's almost as if in a well run state everyone's a net beneficiary even those paying lots of income tax

Yes, I'd do that when I retire.

I haven't said that. I think most of the money should be replaced with healthy foods and I'd include energy tokens in that. I'd happily pay a little more tax to fund it if it came alongside better guidance.

Have you ever lived in poverty?

Several years ago Jamie Oliver went into poorer areas to try to get people cooking healthy food from scratch. He went to visit a young family. The child was eating chicken nuggets out of a cardboard box . The young mother was very keen to learn to cook but didn't have the knowledge or the resources. He taught her a recipe. All super so far. The expectation was that she would cook a larger version of it for her neighbours, whilst showing them how to cook it, and the knowledge would be shared in a lovely way. When he went back he was disappointed that she hadn't done this. She pointed out that she couldn't afford to buy the ingredients or use the cooker for long enough to do this. It's a whole life style chasm away from Tilly and Tim popping round for a delicious kitchen supper made from food Gilly and Giles have harvested from their organic allotment. When you are poor you have one shot at a meal so you feed your children what you know they will eat so they don't go to bed hungry. Wafting avocado's and cous cous about is less of an option.

Why not now you have the evening/ days off find something contribute, you (general you) shouldn't be sitting on the Internet offering "solutions " then expect others to do the dirty work, so you feel better about disadvantaged people.

I did not put that apostrophe in avocados!!!