Where are those people's families and where is my tax going?

[AmusedTaupePlayer]

Nearly 50% of my income vanishes in tax and NI, and I’m seriously wondering what I’m getting in return. The streets are filthy, the Tube’s a mess of delays and breakdowns, and my child’s school can’t even fix leaking ceilings.
GP appointments? Impossible. Police follow-ups? Hit and miss.
I asked my councillor, and he said most of the money’s going to social care — mainly for elderly people and kids in care. Fine, but it makes me ask: where are their families? Why is the state carrying so much, and why does it feel like we're footing the bill for a system that’s barely working?
I’m not trying to be cruel — just frustrated. Is anyone else getting the same response from their council? Or any better answers?

Totally agree.

No incentive for people to get a better paying job or workmore hours.
Employers can also get away with low wages.

Both are state reliant which needs to change. It makes no sense.

Top 1% household wealth in the UK is £3million: approximately 263,000 households.

Given that household wealth increases sharply with age until retirement (at which point they spend down that saved wealth), a fair number of those households will be couples approaching retirement with eg a house paid off (£1million in the SE) which they are living in and pension savings of £1million each. That will give them a pension income of approx £40k each, so net household pension income of £72k if they take early retirement, then £90k when state pension kicks in - generous but not outlandish given that the PLSA defines a confortable' 2-person household pension income as £60k

Only a few tens of thousands of people in the UK have wealth above £10million, which is what I assume you mean by the 'truly rich'.

A few tens of thousand people - even those with wealth greater than £10million - can't be expected to fund 70 million people's lives. The numbers aren't there. And why should they? They'll simply take their millions somewhere else.

The Left wing, populist rhetoric is a lie.

There is no shadowy, rich 'some-one else' to pay for all the things you want. You need to chip in and pay for it yourself.

Oh, and our top 1% couple taking their £90k household pension (1.5 times 'comfortable' level) will already be paying £11k of tax each year, as they take out the pension they've saved all their working lives for.

That money was saved into a pension untaxed - and instead it’s taxed later. They’re not doing the world some sort of above and beyond favour.

So nearly 50% goes on adult social care - the vast majority will be pensioners care. This is the issue - we have an aging population with triple locked state pensions (massive chunk of the benefits pot bevause they didn't Actually pay enough in) and care needs.

You realise you don't get subsidised care and a state pension at the same time? It's one or the other so you can't double count them

(Obviously state pension doesn't cover the care bill, but it goes part way)

Do you realise a dementia care home costs 8k a month?
Most working families can’t afford that.
They pay tax too.

The reason they "didn't actually pay enough in" is because the state pension scheme is not self-funding. They paid what was required of them by law. If you feel this is not right I am sure that you will right now contact the DWP and ask to pay more so that eventually you will have fully funded your own state pension when the time comes!

Only about 50% of the nation are net contributors, which is mental. The majority of benefits claimants should have to work for the state to get their benefits IMO. Sweep the streets etc.

Not the world: but they absolutely are doing the UK a favour.

Break-even point for being a net contributors is about £45k gross. They're just over the boundary for that, so they're paying more than their per-person share of funding the country. Which is doing a favour to every UK adult who isn't.

Then employ them properly to sweep the streets. A proper job with proper pay and all that comes with it such as sick pay and annual leave and pension.

If people on benefits will be sweeping the streets then what will happen to the council workers who do that already?

We tax less than most other countries.

We really don’t. European countries regarded as “high tax” generally tax lower/middle earners at a higher rate than the UK, but higher earners at a lower comparative rate. That raises more revenue because most people fall into that lower/middle category.

Higher earners on PAYE already contribute a huge proportion of income - there is an effective rate of 60% on part of my income.

Only about 50% of the nation are net contributors, which is mental.

It's not really mental, there has always been a high percentage of people who aren't net contributors however with an ageing population it will obviously increase.

Err i'm not...but i see you are defending him earning 1000s of x what a store worker gets...

The body rots from the head down.... why would a Tesco worker go above and beyond and improve productivity with this person as an example?

A proportion of Tesco's 3 billion profit though would pay workers more, reducing the in work benefits bill.

Oh and whilst i mention Tesco, there are also 1000s of companies making huge profits, paying poor wages in the UK.

Plenty of EU countries tax higher income earners higher than we do. The difference is, they get something for it... we do not.

Have you seen the streets? Or the state of the country in general? Hardly sparkling and could do with many pairs more hands.

in Spain people have to work for their benefits by improving the local surroundings. As a result it’s not seen as a long term lifestyle and they are keen to find employment asap. It should only ever be a temporary safety net unless genuinely very disabled. Compared to here where there seems to be no sense of shame living off the taxpayer for generations. If you take, you should put back in. Instead we seem to ‘need’ ever more mass migration to fill shitty jobs, causing housing crises, NHS crises etc etc. totally unsustainable. Makes no sense to tolerate people leaching off the benefits system.

How exactly is someone who isn't working - but getting benefits - not getting sick leave or annual leave?! Every day is sickness/annual leave!

And single person pension credits are exactly the same amount as the state pension. despite never having worked/paid NI.

Do you know how much a single person on job seekers gets? It is a pittance. They also have to be looking for work for 35 hours each week.

Pretty sure people don’t literally do 9-5 Monday to Friday job searching.

What they do and have to do is between them and their work coach.

not quite i ran some financial analysis on tescos and no they cannot pay the workers much higher than they do

That sounds interesting! Can you share any details?

Dont take this as fully accurate :

Section 2: Comparative Analysis and Interpretation
Wage Competitiveness

• M&S leads in retail wage progression, exceeding NLW by ~12% and linking pay to training milestones.
• Tesco and Sainsbury’s closely follow legal minimums, indexing wages to inflationary policy—not productivity.
• Next lags in both wage level and equity measures, risking underperformance in ESG-aligned portfolios.

Internal Equity (CEO Ratio & Pay Compression)

• Unilever offers the flattest wage structure among reviewed firms, suggesting greater internal fairness and long-term retention.
• Tesco’s CEO ratio of 216:1 flags risk in reputational governance metrics, especially as CEO pay expanded amid static frontline wages.

Turnover and Workforce Stability

• Turnover acts as a proxy for workforce satisfaction and operational resilience.
• M&S demonstrates high retention (14%), linked to hybrid work policy, benefits, and advancement pathways.
• Tesco’s 22% turnover reflects perceived employee fungibility and weak upward mobility.

Training & Human Capital ROI

• Unilever leads, embedding training in leadership culture and ESG disclosures.
• M&S significantly outpaces Tesco in per-worker investment.
• Tesco’s £250 per worker is notably underwhelming, exposing a weakness in long-term productivity growth and social capital depth.

Automation and Labour Substitution Risk

• Tesco and Sainsbury’s both rely on automation to offset wage growth pressure.
• Investor interpretation should balance operational efficiency vs. social score erosion.

Same with this dont take it as fully reliable

Labour as Financial Input: Strategic Suppression in a Low-Margin Business
Key Metrics (FY 2024/25):

• UK Staff: ~220,000
• Avg Hourly Wage: £12.64 (rising to match NLW in Aug 2025)
• Total Wage Bill: £5.4bn (est.)
• Operating Profit: £3.13bn
• Free Cash Flow: £1.75bn
• Shareholder Returns: £1bn buyback + £1.1bn dividend

Thesis: Tesco treats labour primarily as a cost variable rather than a value source. This suppresses wage growth, limits training investment, and deprioritizes long-term human capital ROI. Implications:

• Low wage trajectory indexed to National Living Wage (NLW), not internal productivity.
• Profit preservation occurs via labour discipline, not pricing power.
• Operational flexibility prioritized over employment stability.

The Retail Margin Model: Scale Without Pricing Power
Argument: Tesco’s core business model operates on wafer-thin margins that structurally suppress wage flexibility.

• Tesco’s gross margins (~6–7% on core food retail) are among the lowest in any sector due to price competition, high inventory turnover, and perishability.
• Net profit margin (2.3–2.5%) leaves little cushion for discretionary wage increases without impairing ROCE.
• Unlike tech or finance firms, Tesco cannot leverage margin expansion to fund above-market compensation.

Case Study: Aldi and Lidl’s aggressive pricing strategies post-2014 forced Tesco into defensive pricing, triggering a race-to-the-bottom. Tesco prioritized price perception over labour cost expansion, choosing volume protection over wage progression.