Where are those people's families and where is my tax going?

[AmusedTaupePlayer]

Nearly 50% of my income vanishes in tax and NI, and I’m seriously wondering what I’m getting in return. The streets are filthy, the Tube’s a mess of delays and breakdowns, and my child’s school can’t even fix leaking ceilings.
GP appointments? Impossible. Police follow-ups? Hit and miss.
I asked my councillor, and he said most of the money’s going to social care — mainly for elderly people and kids in care. Fine, but it makes me ask: where are their families? Why is the state carrying so much, and why does it feel like we're footing the bill for a system that’s barely working?
I’m not trying to be cruel — just frustrated. Is anyone else getting the same response from their council? Or any better answers?

Yep

Apparently 230 thousand has gone to the grooming gang leader to fight to stay here.

Part of the challenge with having globally based companies is that they can disrupt domestic industries. Ultimately, only certain countries may end up producing specific products, leaving limited demand for services, warehouses, and other industries in other nations. This raises the question of how a country can strengthen its industries when, even if a new company is established, competitors quickly replicate the idea. Meanwhile, population levels continue to grow, and advances in technology reduce the need for certain roles, further complicating the situation etc.

Don’t blame people already struggling or their families. You do not understand what they are going theu

blame the government for refusing to increase tax for the very rich, the ones ABOVE you, cos the ones BELOW you are in need.

i understand your frustration but redirect it where it is really due

This.

I'm a single mum, I get child benefit. I have worked full time since I left college, full time since ds was born, still working full time at 62, running a dept, training up an apprentice, renovating our house. I worked full time through chemo & radiotherapy, I have raised my ds without help. I have 45 years NI paid so far.

I am happy to support those genuinely in need but there are a huge number of people who are taking advantage. Whining about mental health or being too hot to go to work (ffs🙄 !) when the rest of us have to get on with it.

Paying all the bills while recovering from cancer, on my own and being made redundant at the same time involves quite a lot of stress but I didn't burst in to tears and expect anyone to sub me, and I'm losing patience with those who constantly have their hands out (but don't need it).

The UK cannot afford to support so many unproductive people. A lot of people need to grow up and stop being so inept.

I think an age of 'tough love' is coming.

Well done, I have great admiration for you.

When you reach retirement, I hope it is fulfilling and enjoyable. You certainly deserve it.

Everyone has things they struggle with, everyone. It’s a question of how much we as a nation can afford to support people with those struggles and where that money is best spent. And who pays, because it’s not rich corporations or millionaires feeling the pinch it’s every day tax payers.

Part of my salary is reduced by 50% by tax and NI, I’m not a particularly high earner, certainly not into a six figure salary and I have struggles too so why are my struggles not supported by the State when others are?

There are some good reasons, people caring for disabled children and adults who are prevented from working because of those responsibilities should have a decent income, they’re saving the country huge amounts of money. People with disabilities who can’t work also need financial support in a civilised society.

We have a situation now where significant numbers of young people are moving straight from school onto benefits, because the transition to adulthood is hard for the young people and for professionals to support. I know this because I’m fighting against it for my daughter.

Those who are able to work, even if it’s hard, even if they struggle, need to find a way to be productive. Everyone has their own difficulties, it’s part of the human condition but that doesn’t mean it’s the tax payers job to smooth the road without limit.

You've been lied to that there are all these 'very rich' peopke, not being taxed enough, which you could squeeze enough out of that no-one (apart from them) needs to work.

If you want there to be government services (like healthcare and schools, let alone benefits), you need to work and pay enough tax to fund them. That's what the Welfare state was designed to be: a system that everyone pays into, so that if you're temporarily not able to work - or in the cases of the very most need , everyone chips in a bit to cover each other.

It was never meant to be state-mandated charity, where a very few people work to support everyone else - who all expect an ever-rising standard of living, but without working to pay for it. That simply can't work.

In work benefits have always been a disaster. It just encourages employers to avoid paying a decent wage.
They do have a role though for those who have a disability and are disadvantaged in the workplace.

Absolutely this. In fact, the main difference between the UK and European countries with better services is that tax rates for those on average salaries are higher.

Global corporations like Amazon will set up permanent establishments where the rates of corporation tax are favourable, and it’s way beyond the UK’s ability or jurisdiction to change that. Avoiding PAYE on a salary is much trickier, and it’s higher paid employees who are now utterly rinsed for tax whilst enjoying none of the largesse. Many are starting to think “why bother?”

blame the government for refusing to increase tax for the very rich, the ones ABOVE you, cos the ones BELOW you are in need.

By the way, that graph is even worse than it seems.

A full half of that yellow band (top 50% of earners, excluding the top 1%) is paid by the top 10% (and excluding the top 1%)

That top 10% (apart from top 1%) are funding a full third of income tax. They earn between £52k net income (Would be £72k, but £20k of tax is stolen) and £76k net income (£44k of their £120k salary stolen in tax). Is it them you want even more from?

And how can you possibly think that 1% of the population paying 30% of income tax is still not enough?!?

Eta: not sure whether it's the same on everyone's device, but the blue sections at the bottom - which represents the tax take from a full 50% of the population - is so small that the mumsnet image cuts that bit off when displaying the image in my post, and you have to open the image to even see it. 50% of the adult population contributing just 10% of the UK's costs.

I ve lived & worked in Sweden, the state and employers behave totally differently to many UK ones.
No ZHC for starters, high initially unemployment benefit, a welfare state that actually works..... employers and employees buy into this, nothing like what we get here.
We pay in but get very little back, transport, health public services in general, all shit in the UK ... as the OP points out.... people are fed up with it

All very well you blaming the employee but the simple fact is, Governments & employers across a range of industries have sought to suppress wages, training, benefits etc then wonder why productivity, uniquely across Europe, is poor in the UK.

A decent health service, properly funded, actually saves the country money in the medium to long term, its an investment in the country and its peoples but atm we pay in less than needed but still 100s of billions, yet because of this underfunding, we get a terrible outcome.

Talk about missing the point!

The wealthy have held down wages, low wages means less tax take, so in proportion, they end up paying more but their wealth does keep increasing..... so all is good, they can moan about how much they pay as a %, yet still see their wealth increase... win win!

How exactly have 'the wealthy' held down wages? Please do tell me the mechanism how someone taking home £52k net salary (the 10% point, where they're paying 3 times more tax than their share) is soo powerful.

You've been fed populist lies by the Left.

I mean, listen to yourselves

blame the government for refusing to increase tax for the very rich

The wealthy have held down wages

It's such complete populist nonsense.

''They're the bad guys! Grab your pitchforks! Follow meeee!'

When they're the people working to actually make things work in the country. And handing over huge amounts of the money they earn, only to be vilified - without the slightest thought as to whether it even makes any sense - by the people they're giving it to!

corporates avoid paying tax thru loopholes. the truly rich have no income but assets

When they’re gone the rest will feel it even more.

Are you suggesting that, for example, the CEO of Tesco, hasn't held down his staffs wages? or that he isn't wealthy?

Tesco CEO Ken Murphy's total compensation for the latest financial year was £9.23 million, a decrease from the previous year's £10.24 million. This includes his annual salary of £1.65 million, an annual bonus of £2.88 million, and a performance share plan (PSP) payout of £4.79 million. The PSP payout is based on the company's performance since 2021 and is paid in Tesco shares

Not bad considering you re selling products everyone needs and you only have 3 or 4 competitors...

Have you seen the ratio of CEO pay increase to average worker wage increases over the last 20 years or so?
They have feathered their own nests, whilst suppressing their workers salaries, then gasp "why is productivity so low..."

The Tories froze tax thresholds, people earning 52k aren't wealthy at all, why are you suggesting they are?

When i first started paying higher rate tax, i really was quite well off, when i stopped work, i was also just inside the higher rate band but was no longer well off.....

Perhaps you have swallowed all that right wing BS ?

What utter nonsense

And don't forget @strawberrybubblegum the 'GET THE WEALTHY!! 🔱' lot always mean 'anyone who is wealthier than I'..... till the wealthy is them!! 😕

None of us are going to be billionaires

Try dividing his wages among the huge number of staff they employ and you'll see it really wouldn't make much difference to the average shelf stacker if the CEO waived all his wages and bonuses! You need to appreciate the scale of the huge companies. If you divide the "big" figures by number of stores, number of staff, number of customers, you soon see that they're really not that different to the smaller/independent convenience stores in terms of profits, profit per customer, profit per worker, etc.

A very good point. If Tesco's CEO's £10million was shared between the 330,000 staff, they would get £30 extra each per year. (and then potentially lose their jobs a couple of years later. CEOs are actually quite useful).

In the UK, only 18,700 people earn over £1million per year.

There really aren't hordes of handy uber-rich people to steal more money from.

people earning 52k aren't wealthy at all

Of course they're not!! That's exactly what I'm saying. Yet they're being expected to pay 3 times more tax than they should because a third of the working age population don't pay any tax at all.

Until people realise that there's no horde of 'rich-people-who-don't-even-need-their-money' to support them - and that actually it's normal people like themselves who are paying for ever-increasing government spending and Welfare - those state services will continue to go down the drain as fewer and fewer people are willing to contribute.

Well said. It's a numbers game.

Spread the wealth from a tiny minority of ultra rich amongst huge numbers of average people, and the figures are trivial - wouldn't touch the sides. Just do a huge load of damage to the economy for no worthwhile benefit at all.