Should society help people make better choices of life partners?

[Mawg]

I have heard often that statistically the ideal environment for children to grow up is with two parents who are happily married/partnered. I just googled this and with a brief flick through it seems to be correct.

I am NOT dissing single parent families or any other setups, which are often fab. But if we talking society-level statistics, it seems that research shows that children raised in happy partnerships are more likely to have better:

• emotional health
• mental health
• physical health
• social skills
• academic outcomes
• less likely to be involved in crime

Obviously once you are in an unhappy marriage, it is better for you and the children to leave it. So the key is to try to avoid getting into unhappy marriages in the first place.

It seems to me that this is a case of trying to break the cycle. Children raised in homes where good relationships are modelled are more likely to have good relationships themselves, and then their children are more likely to experience the above benefits in turn.

It is certainly in society's interest to try to help with this; potentially it could result in a reduction in mental and physical health issues, maintain a more resilient workforce, reduce domestic violence, crime, and so on.

I appreciate that life events happen and people change, and also that there are some very sneaky people who really could trick the most vigilant of people into believing they are decent, but there is nothing that can be done about these. But for marriages where there were signs of incompatibility early on in the dating stage... how does society help people learn to recognise them? Teach in schools I suppose, since the whole point is that the parents of those who need it most often don't know it themselves. I know schools have plenty to do, but to an individual child knowing how to pick a good life partner is far more useful than learning trigonometry for the third time. I can't think of a single academic subject which is more important than this. Yes it would cost money, but there's potentially an enormous pay off in the future.

Even giving all the school leavers a flipping leaflet would be better than nothing!

Stuff like...
Do they share your life goals/major beliefs/morals?
Are they kind to people who are of 'lower status' eg a waitress who made a mistake?
Do they handle stressful situations and disagreements without insulting people or shouting?
Do you have the same ideas about money - spending it and sharing finances ?
Do they put others first?
Do they communicate effectively over any issues in the relationship?

If you were in an unhappy marriage, how do you think society could have helped equip you to recognise the signs early on and give you the tools to leave the relationship before it got serious?

Sorry that's very rambling. TDLR: should society help people make better choices re life partners, to lead to a healthier society overall?

I have a pastoral role in a school and healthy relationships are already part of the curriculum.
But life happens and we are human beings. There are far too many factors that affect the stability and viability of relationships. There will never be a one size fits all that will support people to make the right decisions regarding their relationships and circumstances can also change.

Are they? Maybe this is a regional thing? They do touch on it here (Scotland) but I understand it's really brief. Do you think it's good enough where you are?

If you explain what the best outcomes are, people who don’t fit into that will be up in arms complaining.

I have wondered if part of relationship education should be teaching the signs of a toxic person or examples of toxic behaviour. I'm not sure though, it could be really awkward for those with family members that display this behaviour and be potentially stigmatizing.

I'm also in Scotland.
In PSE, age appropriate issues relating to healthy relationships are covered at every stage so yes, I'd say it's more than sufficient.

Good joke! So funny! I can imagine my “ on paper” match and how awful that would be! 😂
Its like all the ai ‘ suggestions’ everywhere nowadays : if you like x, you’ll like y…..and No, no I don’t, stop suggesting things I don’t like!
Lets accept matters of the heart have their own way, and respect it.💜

Honestly is this a joke??!!

Also as a professional I think you are really wrong with any of the research you claim to have done

A child brought up in a family with at least one stable parent who is not being abused by their partner will flourish. And numerous studies prove this

So it's the stability of one consistent carer that is key

Schools do teach kids about relationships, in addition to generally trying to teach them to behave kindly, cooperatively and appropriately towards each other and other people.

I'm afraid that (even fairly regular) lessons and leaflets will do little to undo what kids have already experienced in their early formative years, or what they then see on social media and amongst their peers.

I think non-teachers tend to vastly over-estimate what kids absorb and remember of this kind of teaching (assuming they are even paying attention in the first place). School kids generally hate Personal Development type lessons and take them with a massive pinch of salt, especially if they do not reflect the reality that they experience in their own lives.

Thank you so much for this. I find OP’s post is really depressing, a rallying cry for eugenics. God forbid we should have relationships with anyone less ‘comfortable’ than we are; perfection is built on stability.

Serving and past members of the armed forces seem a particularly bad bet, with their frequent relocations, absences and incipient PTSD (sarcasm: logical progression not an actual opinion)

Eugenics? For flip's sake, what a leap! Don't be absolutely ridiculous.

I wasn't aware that the teaching on schools on this is actually really good - my bad! A teacher friend mentioned it to me recently and he thought it wasn't really enough, but I stand corrected.

Is teaching it in schools sufficient hen, or is there anything else that should be done to raise awareness?

To the pp who said that everyone's 'list' is different, I agree. There are some universal things though - insulting you and calling you names, for example - which nobody at all should settle for. But basically the point is to get people to actually think properly about the qualities of those they have children with, rather than just 'I fancy the pants off them'. And a kind of bullet point lost of things you would want to consider. It's fine if you and your partner decide it doesn't matter if you're Muslim and he's Buddhist, but you absolutely do need to have a good conversation about it.

I just don't think sex really works like this, OP. Physical desire isn't headed off with a sensible pamphlet about investment strategies.

No it is not a joke.

And no I'm not a professional. I am just discussing an issue on a chat forum, and I'm open to being wrong. Maybe society should never mention that witnessing a healthy relationship is the best way to learn about them, nor help people who don't have that benefit to learn what they missed?

I had one amazing parent, and one totally absent parent. I learned all the stuff about emotional, physical health etc from my single amazing parent. But she could not demonstrate a healthy relationship to me because she wasn't in one. We never got relationship stuff in PSE so I had to go out and do my own research on what to look for in a life partner. I read loads, but not everyone is nosy like me. Some people need a prompt - someone to point out 'you need to look into this and have a good think about how people demonstrate that they actually have the qualities you want them to have, not just that they say they have these qualities '.

What you’re describing is common sense. If people can’t pick it up themselves, it’s unlikely that a leaflet will change anything.

Eugenics, or implicit eugenics, come up on here a surprising amount.

I was also going to ask how you planned to make this happen, OP. Compulsory emotional health testing before you ttc? Sterilisation of the incorrigibly nasty/bad at relationships?

Well government campaigns managed to show people that smoking is a bad idea. Why can't a campaign show people that a relationship where your partner insults you is a bad idea?
Is there really absolutely nothing that would work even for some people?

You are putting words in my mouth and you know it. Nowhere have I said anything like that, nor do I think it.
I have only spoken of how to help people make better choices so that they are happier and their children are statistically better equipped to do the same.

Journalism at its best... 🤨

I think this is quite patronising. A lot of relationships/marriages end for reasons that have nothing at all to do with not having been taught or shown what to look for in a potential life-partner. Major life changes, work pressures, resentment setting in, one spouse falls in love with someone else... just a few examples off the top of my head.

I had a very happy, wholesome childhood and I am separated. My 2 closest friends the same. We all chose well back then. We are all sensible and actually, so are the ex-OH's. But life...happens.

The most important thing is that parents prioritise their children when they separate. I don't necessarily think the increase in divorce rate is bad thing if it means that more people are happier and therefore their children are happier. Go back a few decades and most people made a different choice because there was no choice. So they stayed in their marriages and lived in low-key misery.

I'm not sure about your statistic (needing 2 parents for a well rounded childhood) because I have previously read that children need 1 stable parent for a well-rounded, healthy childhood.

Also, 'healthy relationships' are taught in school every single day. That is why you cannot kick or steal or pull your classmates hair.

This kind of assumes that everybody who is looking for a partner is a fine, upstanding, wonderful person themselves.

Yes, I did say in my OP that there were situations where it was not possible to prevent a relationship deteriorating, such as life events. I was clear I was not talking about these situations.

I think mumsnet is fulfilling this role! Loads of young women come on here and us oldies warn them about the red flags, financial security, risks of having kids etc

Is teaching it in schools sufficient hen, or is there anything else that should be done to raise awareness?

Theres only so much education can do in the face of social media, the music industry, programmes like Love Island, the general use of pornography. For every teacher saying “look for stability” there are a hundred influences saying follow your heart, couple up/uncouple/recouple as you see fit. The relationship standards portrayed in media are on the floor.

That's true. So do you think that banning pornography would make a big difference to relationship health at a population level? If so should the government do this?

I don’t think the government has the reach to ban pornography, interesting though that you latch onto that and not the absolute crap that poses as entertainment.

I’d ban every shitty channel 4/5 relationship based “reality” programme that tells women they need to appear a certain way, behave a certain way and empowers grown adults to behave like children.

I’d ban reporting on every celebrity relationship disaster, and everything that glamourises multiple partners, cheating, manipulation and gas lighting. We pump this shit out and then wonder why young (and old) women accept crap in their relationships.

Well that's interesting! I think banning pornography is a relatively logical step. It's already banned on broadcast TV, but for some reason is permitted on the internet. It's banning something reasonably clear cut which is already delineated and limited in some arenas. Whereas you're proposing some kind of limitations on a free press? I think that would be much more difficult to get through parliament. It might be possible to force programme makers / news sites to publish a health warning at the top of depictions of bad relationships? "This programme depicts people in unhealthy relationships" or similar.
I don't know if any of this would actually have even a partial effect though 🤷