Is the UK that bad?

[IsItThatBad]

Name changed for this. Just looking for opinions on this discussion at a party earlier this week. Lots of couples talking about the UK and futures etc. A big discussion started about the state of the UK, crime, services, high taxation and state education. A few of them were saying how they were actively looking for jobs abroad as there was little ambition and opportunity here in the UK.

The places they were suggesting were Brussels, Singapore, Dubai/ Middle East or Scandinavia (Scandinavia for the cheaper childcare etc).

I have to say that I found this quite upsetting as I don’t think the UK is that bad. We all live in the SW England with good links to London and I love the culture, theatres and museums. We have local nature walks. Yes, everything is more expensive nowadays and tax is quite high at the moment but surely the grass can’t be that green elsewhere?

Am I wrong? Is the UK markedly worse than elsewhere?

No i don't think so i just think British people like a good moan. It's like bonding

I always laugh when people complain about the UK being 'high tax'. It has many problems, but high tax isn't one of them. I am a higher level tax payer and I never think about how much tax I'm paying - when you are decently off, whinging about tax is a choice, not a genuine grievance.

I do have a lot of worries about the direction the country is going in, especially in terms of reactionary politics, which is an unfortunate effect of the large and increasing wealth disparity where too many people lap up every lie about why things are bed that are spread around by.... gosh, the people hoovering up all the wealth who are the actual reason things are bad.

I'm not sure anywhere else is much better though. I don't think the UK is in a uniquely bad way, though Brexit made everything worse.

Well it’s better than living in Gaza , Ukraine or Chernobyl??

Nowhere is perfect but will some young people find better opportunities in other countries? yes. We have the problem of low wages, high taxes and intergenerational inequality so why wouldn't somewhere with low tax or where it's easier to buy a house be appealing?

I always laugh when people complain about the UK being 'high tax'. It has many problems, but high tax isn't one of them.

Tax on higher earners on PAYE is broadly inline with other European countries. It's the lower and middle earners who get taxed less here.

God, who would want to live in Dubai? Slave state, conspicuous consumption and far too hot! Scandinavia possibly - but it’s dark most of the year. Hmm, I think I prefer it here. We do have some issues, but they’re not so very different from those faced elsewhere.

Should Farage ever become PM DH wants to move somewhere else. I think I agree - Spain or Sweden.

There is nothing for the youth in this country. Stagnant wages. Employers seem to want to bring over foreign workers rather than unskill existing staff. House prices unaffordable in pretty much everywhere apart from NE. Environment up shit creek, quite literally.
There's not much going right.

No it really isn’t. We Brits just love a moan. I’d also say given your “friends” choices that they are part of the problem tbh as a more diverse group of counties I can’t imagine … what they scream is …. Me me me

brussels - Belgium is currently lead by a coalition govt lead by the conservative right.

Singapore / Dubai / Middle East - fucking hell!! Ok yes - if you are rich, highly educated you can earn a tax free fortune. Dont worry about the atrocious women rights, that you can locked up if you are raped, or gay or just poor.

Scandinavia - seriously! The reason child care is cheap is because they pay INCREDIBLY HIGH tax. So if these friends are the bastions of socialists (that are also happy to live in the Middle East ffs !) then probably they aren’t going to love the extremely high taxes

Obviously plenty of people want to live in Dubai.

Name me a country in Europe you can't say that about.

@EchobellyThank you for your post. Yes, I do agree that Brexit did make things a lot more difficult, especially with companies trying to do business in Europe. The reactionary politics also is very worrying but I don’t think Britain is alone (unfortunately) with having these types of political problems.

No, not that bad. Yes, it’s going through a tough time at the moment, but then so are alot of (Western) countries, and it’s in a much better situation than a lot of countries.

No, the UK really isn’t that bad, imo. The British just like a good moan, it feels like a nice common ground for us all! Being serious though, any (every!) country has its issues. Personally I am rather fond of England, flaws and all.

There's a reason childcare's cheap in Scandinavia though - it's highly subsidised by those high taxes. I find Scandinavia fascinating but I think it would be hard to learn the language(s), the winters would be a shock and the culture would be very different. Do these people have family there?

Singapore or Dubai perhaps might be more practical and money would buy you more help around the home, but the political moaning would have to stop!

@Skipthisbit Thank you! Yes, I did try to make this point but it fell on deaf ears. I didn’t know that about Belgium though!

The UK hasn't been a great place to invest for quite a while. Economic growth has been promised but not come. Plus underinvestment. Satisfaction with the NHS has dropped massively.

Its also happening in a lot of countries- governments are broke.
I blame prioritising shareholder interests rather than being a responsible company.

So I can see why they might look at places like Dubai etc.

However- I think there is also going to be growth in Pharmaceuticals, defense, not to mention opportunities through AI.

So in 15 years the picture will look different again.

I've lived abroad and my heart craved this green and pleasant land in the end.

No. Its absolutely fine, same as the rest of Europe, good bits bad bits.

@NeedlenardlenooNo, no family there. I do think it may all just be a pipe dream for many. However, the conversations did drag down the celebratory vibe of the event! And a good point about the unappreciated benefit of being able to moan about our country. Not all have that privilege.

The UK really isn’t that bad it’s just that the media like to portray it as a cesspit.
It might be in some parts but the majority of the country it isn’t. Media, MAGA, Reform et al all want a white, right government and will blame anyone who is not in that category

It’s what British people do. Being positive about the UK when you’re British is akin to showing off, which is definitely not cricket. Now, if someone not from the UK was to slag off the UK, they’d be singing the national anthem, whilst dancing around a maypole, eating haggis and white pudding, and waving daffodils.

It’s like your family, you can complain about them, but god forbid anyone else does!!

I definitely worry about our kids. DH has said he will encourage them to move abroad when they finish education and I don't necessarily disagree, though, as above, I'm not sure where's much better. We're in London and we're not going to find a six figure sum under a sofa cushion to give them a deposite (when even a broom cupboard in outer zones costs a quarter of a million now)

Environmentally everywhere is up shit creek and I reckon the UK is actually pretty well off - yes, there's flood risk in some areas, but I genuinely wouldn't advise my kids to move to Aus/NZ/South Africa (we have family connections there) because I think sub equatorial countries are going to get seriously hard to live in during their lifetime.

@LogicalBlodge Thank you for this post. It has made me feel better about the future and the UK. I too love Britain (warts and all).

Thank you to everyone for your views. I hope it was just the British pastime of moaning!

I am surprised they listed those countries - you would need to learn new languages to fit in properly in all of them, surely? And Singapore and Dubai/Middle East are very repressive politically, I especially wouldn't want to live in Dubai as a woman and bring up daughters there. I suppose it's OK if you want to live in a gated community and you like shopping.

Usually I thought people say Canada, Australia, maybe New Zealand. (Not the USA in its current state). All English speaking, democratic, with amazing countryside to explore.

I too think that your group of party friends were just revelling a good old communal moan about"the way things are here now".
Things are not great in a lot of countries right now.
I would suggest you make another post if the next time you get together your friends could make a list of the pros and cons of the country that they actually would like to relocate to, and what they don't like about the country they are living in now.
You could make it a sort of party game.
Then there'll be something to inform the rest of us and to debate!