Is the UK that bad?

[IsItThatBad]

Name changed for this. Just looking for opinions on this discussion at a party earlier this week. Lots of couples talking about the UK and futures etc. A big discussion started about the state of the UK, crime, services, high taxation and state education. A few of them were saying how they were actively looking for jobs abroad as there was little ambition and opportunity here in the UK.

The places they were suggesting were Brussels, Singapore, Dubai/ Middle East or Scandinavia (Scandinavia for the cheaper childcare etc).

I have to say that I found this quite upsetting as I don’t think the UK is that bad. We all live in the SW England with good links to London and I love the culture, theatres and museums. We have local nature walks. Yes, everything is more expensive nowadays and tax is quite high at the moment but surely the grass can’t be that green elsewhere?

Am I wrong? Is the UK markedly worse than elsewhere?

This everyone wants to ban immigration but even in Europe they're struggling with low fertility rates, if reforms plans of zero immigration came true we'd struggle.

Yes because lower taxes, better services & no immigration is so realistic. People will lap it up though 🤬

Belgium?? Are they kidding. My husband was offered a job transfer there, the only positive we could come up with was we’d learn another language, we didn’t move and I don’t regret it. The grass isn’t always greener on the other side. Most countries have their own problems, currently housing issues are worldwide, it’s not just in the UK.

@balcoly . But if they can't lower taxes, energy bills and fuel then they shouldn't be in government. At the moment it is getting to the point where lower earners may as well give up work .
I don't want zero immigration I want controlled immigration so for example if a young person goes to university to do I.T they have a job at the end instead of what is happening at the moment where companies bring in people from India and our youngsters are stuck working not using there degrees. Give our youngsters a chance to learn on the job.
Are you happy with our services?

Are you happy with our services?

Of course I am not but why on earth do you think they will improve with lower taxes?

We have an ageing population & that costs so taxes can only keep going up.

At the moment it is getting to the point where lower earners may as well give up work .

Lower earners pay less tax here than many other European countries. The issue is so much of their income goes on housing.

Turning housing into an asset has done so much damage to the economy.

Give our youngsters a chance to learn on the job.

So how do you propose you get businesses to invest time & money in young British workers?

"The UK was in second place in the G7 for private investment, as a share of the economy in the mid 1990s, but has now fallen behind them all."

"The long-term impact of this is low productivity - we take more time to produce less than our rivals -which results in low growth, low real wages, and then problems raising money for public services."

This is what happens when you stop investing & now we are feeling the impacts.

I have lots of friends who have moved to Dubai and Qatar.

My friends really love Qatar as there is a huge ex-pat community and they have mostly British friends.

It seems as though the grass has been greener for them. Better education, more family orientated, better pay, reduced crime and work incentives like having a nanny.

I'm not sure how green the grass actually is though. I personally wouldn't consider it. I think home is home.

We love moaning and it’s some kind of weird National tradition to put ourselves down but truth be told I wouldn’t want to live in any of the countries listed in the op instead. Things aren’t great here at the moment but it’s the same everywhere. Better to stay and make your corner of the country a bit better than to abandon ship.

Tough call. I live in the US in a west coast city. We have great food, great access to outdoors and DH get paid more than 2x what we were being paid in London. Our housing costs are lower and our taxes are lower. There is visible inequality and I HATE HATE HATE that there are guns. But day to day, our quality of life is much higher than it was in London. Houses are properly insulated, when I tell people about “damp” they think it’s mad. It’s not a thing here. We have very good healthcare through our employers and I thank fuck every time I don’t have to use the NHS. Our DC’s state primary will have 18 kids/class. I am so thankful she’s not in a class with 30+ kids. Our state is very liberal so we are not impacted by a lot of the horrible politics directly. I don’t want to ever move back to the UK.

but… if Trump does the unthinkable and refuses to leave power, or something happens with guns… we would leave in a heartbeat. But probably would try to go to Canada.

This.

I'm a single mum on a medium income. We live in a nice house with a garden, in a village surrounded by fields and trees. Our village is a working village rather than a chocolate box picture but the neighbours are nice, no problem at all. My ds goes to a good school where he is happy and doing well. On track to study engineering. As a 60+ woman, I was made redundant last August and found another suitable role within 7 weeks.

We have an adequate income to allow us to live a nice life, run a car, see friends, have space and leisure time. One foreign holiday a year. I cook from scratch, easily provide healthy food, we don't eat out much. There is very little crime where we live (14 years in this house without issue).

Maybe others have higher expectations. Or we are lucky.

I have lived in Scandinavia. It is not the social democratic paradise many people believe it to be. There are some seriously rough parts of Copenhagen and never start a conversation about tax with a Swede.

It is probably the same as it always was, for those with good jobs and a good education.
It is probably markedly worse for anyone else.
I left several decades ago, when the graduate jobs' market was a wasteland and would only ever move back if I were extremely wealthy, which is not likely to happen.

The Tory-graph, they would say that, wouldn't they.

It’s the DWP who said it.

Me too..

Where do you all live that’s ’not so bad’?
I really want to be positive about the UK, but it just feels like it’s getting more and more run down and dirty where I live.
Gangs of youths hanging around, the smell of weed and multiple stabbings.
It’s certainly a worse place to live than it was even 10 years ago.

If you stay well away from Facebook and or Twitter, it's a pretty wonderful place, social media is a absolute sewer and people's should avoid doom scrolling which show the absolute worst aspects of life, it would be the equivalence of watching 80s Crime watch UK back to back all Day, everyday. That would be totally depressing. I have family who moved to Dubai, that's no picnic either, trust me.

In Scandinavian you pay the cheap childcare by paying high taxes. No free lunch...

I love the UK. We’ve taken a wrong step with Brexit but we’ll get through it in time. Other than that, the problems we have are largely the problems other European countries have, including Scandinavia- far right on the move, inflation and stagnation. I also think the internet is socially harmful
but obviously that’s everywhere. It’s a worrying time but not one you can escape by moving.

Couldn’t bear Singapore or (worse) Dubai for all the reasons PP mentioned above.

its patchy and the politics are a bit dodgy but at least we aren’t America right now.

Sorry to nit pick but this always frustrates me a little. The question was about the UK not England. Scotland and Wales have affordable housing in some places.

Small village rural Hampshire. Not a fashionable village but friendly and practical. We've been here 14 years and no obvious deterioration apart from potholes.

The change seems to be in towns - over crowding, poor housing, lack of services and community etc. In a village, we didn't have any services in the first place so we deal with stuff ourselves.

Scandinavia isn’t dark most of the year. We have darker winters but brighter summers than the UK. On average, per year, there are more daylight hours in Stockholm than London.

Don’t worry, it’s coming. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/angela-rayner-housing-planning-greenbelt-b2663363.html