Dentist charges

[Dentistquestion]

I had sickness and diarrhoea last week, I phoned on the morning of my dentist appointment with a hygienist and they cancelled the appointment. I called today to re-book, the lady told me I had to pay their cancellation fee, as it was out of their 48 hour cancellation period, I explained I had a sickness bug which started the evening before and called them in the morning, as soon as they opened, but I still have to pay it before they’ll book me in again, which feels a bit unfair because I couldn’t predict I was going to be unwell, but I’m going to have to suck it up and pay it.
Do most dentists have these rules in place? I’ve never cancelled or not turned up to an appointment prior to this.

I didn’t have a cold, I had sickness and diarrhoea and I’m sure they wouldn’t have wanted to clear up after me, or spread to their patients and staff.

Considering the fees private dentist charge, you'd think they'd be a little more understanding?
Surely they know their patients and can look at no shows and act accordingly??

Or is it just greed that seems to permeate every aspect of our country now.

Dentists are hardly lacking in patients - if you don’t book an appointment because you struggle to get there, they’ll have absolutely no issue filling your space.

I’m a dental hygienist and recently had to cancel a day fairly short notice as I was having a miscarriage. I lose that entire days pay as I’m self employed so no sick pay etc. Are you saying next time I should then charge my patients less so I then earn even less money? And yet people on here think it’s appalling if I go to work with a slight cold as I might infect people! So I should be calling in sick the entire time I have even a sniffle or lingering cough (which could be a few weeks), plus give ALL those patients a discount the next time I see them! Honestly I regret with every fibre in my body that I went into dentistry and not a nice office job.

They still need to reach financial targets.
No issue filling a space within 24/48 hours, I doubt that, most people need advance notice to book time off work.

That’s the risk you take when self-employed.
Also the patient is losing money too, for taking time of work, that they didn’t need to take.

Do you think it’s my choice to be self employed? I would kill to be employed. Trust me if my surgery is investigated by the HMRC they would deem me employed.
I work in one practice. 4 days a week. They set my hours. They set my appointment times. They book the patients in. I use their equipment that they provide me. They even have limited my “annual leave” to 4 weeks a year. Which parts of that could be self employed?

Thankfully it’s them that get in shit not me if they get investigated. And yes I’ve asked to be employed. They told me no and if I don’t like it I can leave. Yup. To another self employed position that sets the same terms.

How many other things in life do you get money back/discounts later if you can’t go? Concerts? Cinema? Train tickets? Theme park tickets? Theatre? Holidays/hotels (obviously unless you have insurance).

Thing is most employed people get paid when they go to appointments or they can use annual leave. Not all obviously I know. My husband does though. Being self employed I get paid nothing. And obviously these things happen to me as well. I’ve taken time off work to go to an appointment that was then cancelled. And normally I can’t then say “oh I’ll just go to work tomorrow then” because they can’t get patients booked in that quickly. So I’ve lost that whole day pay. I don’t then expect a discount next time though!

Then find another job that isn’t self-employed. It’s not the fault of others that you don’t get paid.
If you can’t attend cinema/theatre etc, you lose out on only one lot of money, not cancellation and ticket prices and most places now offer you to change dates, even for a small fee.

Most people (namely parents), don’t have enough annual leave to cover school holidays, let alone appointments, so yes, as a family we lose money too.
Why are you asking me about wanting a discount, I never said this, I said I shouldn’t have to pay a fee for one appointment, I have missed due to unavoidable illness, if my hygienist was unwell and they cancelled the appointment, I wouldn’t expect them to pay me the money I lost from taking time off work.
People don’t predict they will be unwell, so giving 24 hours notice, will be impossible for the majority of people.

24/48 hours notice means they can fit in emergencies, or move other bookings around. They can’t easily do that if you call at 9am on the day.

I’m self employed and charge people if they don’t give me enough notice regardless of the reason - because I still have bills to pay and it’s not my fault someone is sick.

However if I’m sick or need to cancel then it’s just something I suck up because it’s not my clients’ fault.

Aibu - yes

Op - no I am not .🙄

I never asked if I was being unreasonable, try focusing on your reading comprehension skills 🙄

Not many people can attend appointments within that timescale, if you work.
So the other person has to pay you if they’re sick, but if you’re sick it’s ok to waste their time?

I get your point that people working often need to take time off to attend appointments, but as dental appointments are generally so hard to come by, there will be plenty of people grateful and able to take a last minute cancellation. (Elderly, SAHP, on sick/ Maternity leave, in dental pain, those working from home with flexibility, unemployed, etc.)

They aren't as desperate for you as a client and your money as you think, as you are easily replaced. But this doesn't mean they should lose the income if you are a late cancellation and they don't have time to fill the slot.

I think the best advice was from an early PP that you advise them of your illness and ask if they want you to attend. Then it is on them if THEY cancel your appointment.

To answer your original question, yes I think most dentists work this way. My current dentist charges the full fee in advance when you book for the first appointment - which we had to wait months for. Subsequent appointments they charge half in advance on booking. Both with a 48hr notice clause - not sure if this is 2 working days or includes weekends. ETA the advance payment serves as the cancellation fee if less than 48 hours notice.

Your logic is utterly baffling to me.

If I’m sick, I take the financial hit of not being able to work and not getting paid. If my client is sick, they take the financial hit of having to pay for a last-minute cancellation.

If they don’t agree, they’re always free to find another service provider with different T&C’s, but it’s not the job of my business to take the financial hit because they’re sick or can’t make it - that’s why I have a contract in place to protect me.

As for wasting people’s time - it’s not like I’m doing it on purpose to piss them off 🙄 if I’m sick, I’m sick. Luckily my clients are all fantastic and have never been anything but understanding when I’ve needed to cancel - and anyone who wasn’t wouldnt be my client for very long anyway 🤷‍♀️

What if Oasis cancel one of their upcoming shows due to illness? All that happens is you’ll get your money back for the concert. You’ll likely lose any hotel money and travel money because YOU are the one cancelling those. (Unless you took out insurance).

It is standard across almost every industry that if YOU cancel something, you get charged/don’t get refunded. But if the service cancels, you get refunded/not charged and that’s it.

You wouldn’t start shouting at the London Palladium that they wouldn’t refund you theatre tickets because you were sick?

Exactly - it’s standard across pretty much all industries. I’m a dog walker for example - if I’m sick and need to cancel then I don’t get paid and lose out on a days’ pay. But if my clients cancel last minute, they still have to pay me, because I can’t fill their slots with no notice.

Realistically I rarely ever charge for last-minute cancellations unless someone takes the piss, but my contract is there to protect me and for me to enforce if necessary. I’ve had to do it a few times re. late payment and non-disclosure and it’s been a lifesaver!

I’m talking about cases where the person has had to take time off work themselves and the person cancels due to sickness,
your logic is baffling 🙄

Regardless of what you think, I still think it’s unfair!

Yes, but the fact that they have to take time off work is their issue, not the business's issue.

I run a business where if I have to cancel, someone probably has to take time off work to cover me (I'm a dog walker) but that's not my fault or something I'm responsible for.

That’s what insurance is for. Duh!
It’s not standard practice you get charged for cancellations, vets, restaurants, opticians and doctor surgeries, etc don’t charge for missed appointments.

Why are you talking about shouting at a palladium 😂

Do you take out insurance for the cinema? What if you buy cinema tickets then can’t go because you’re ill? Do you ask for a refund? Do you think you’d get one?

It’s great that you take out insurance for every show/concert/theatre/cinema trip you go to including covering any time off work or hotels and travel. I haven’t seen insurance for time off work for a concert. Is it classed under travel insurance? Even if you’re just travelling on a Wednesday to a different city then back Thursday? Maybe there’s a gap in the market for appointment insurance! Would you happily pay for that like you do for other all the other insurances?

You do realise that people who charge for missed appointments also get charged for missed appointments and also take time off work for appointments? These things that happen to you also happen to those of us who charge. But we don’t get as annoyed as you because we understand why!

No one is saying you’re responsible for the loss of hours, but if your client is sick they still have to pay.

So it’s always the client which loses out one way or another.

Many of these industries do charge for cancellations. Restaurants especially in covid had to start charging a deposit that they kept in the event of no shows, but at least they have a business where passing trade will make up for cancellations during normal times.

Hairdressers and beauty therapists, etc tend to have similar cancellation policies as do many vets and medical practitioners in the private sector.

I think the problem here is we are spoilt by the NHS and generally not used to paying for our appointments. The costs to the service of no-shows and last-minute cancellations is mind-boggling.

Of course there are sometimes extenuating circumstances like yours, and they might waive the fee if they value your custom, but they usually have a policy reserving the right to charge, and won't allow re-booking until it is paid.

Yes, they do have to pay - because their sickness isn't my fault and I shouldn't miss out on income because of it. I can't fill their space if they message me at 7am to say they're at home sick and their dog won't need a walk, I need a decent amount of notice.

It's all in the contract that they sign when they start with me - if they disagree, then they're more than welcome to find another dog walker.

Yes its fair to charge as long as they have a clear cancellation policy. It sucks when you're unwell and its not your fault, but I would bet tonnes of people say they're sick as an excuse, if they didn't charge for that where do they draw the line? They also can't fill a slot in that short of notice. Wittering on about it being unfair as you've taken time off work too is not their issue, they offer a service that you've chosen to book.

There are ways around the things you have mentioned, selling tickets, re-booking visits which a lot of places will allow you do to.
Many industries don’t charge for cancellation, or charge a very small fee.
I very much doubt my dentist gets charged for missed appointments, you’re clutching at straws now.
Appointment insurance, there is no market for it because many places are flexible, or maybe there should be better practices in place, so people are able to give 24 hours notice before the practice opens. It’s not the fault of the patient that opening hours prevent this.
Who said I’m getting annoyed? I said I felt it wasn’t fair, which I don’t!