Are there the same issues for Trans Men?

[Blimpop]

With the Current news topic about trans women and the legal definition of women, it's got me wondering if there are the same issues for trans men? Is it that the similar issues arnt there or it does not get the same media coverage?

There was a long thresd on here the other day that I read that was quite interesting. I think the stats for trans women and men differ, but I’m not that close to it. Hopefully someone else comes along

Men are a threat to women. Women are not generally a threat to men in any way, so no.

It also appears in my experience that a trans man's path to health care and medical needs, support etc is a hell of a lot harder to get.

It seems everything is much quieter on the trans men side of things. It almost seems like there's a lot of misogyny directed at trans women by women themselves, doesn't it?

I did not see the other thread but I think we hear less about Transmen for several reasons. Firstly, they are women so tend to quietly get on with their lives without shouting about it and demanding they are heard. Secondly, because they are women, they do not pose a threat to the men they are sharing spaces with in quite the same way. Being a woman is a protected characteristic, protected by law which is why trans rights should not trump womens rights. They are both important but need different solutions. Men do not have/ need the same protection generally.

@feistyfrankieHow can one be misogynistic towards males? The definition of misogyny is “dislike or prejudiced against women”.

Trans men aren’t going to take sports prizes from actual men and are no threat to cis men in toilets or changing rooms. They’ve not had male privilege. So no threat to cis men in any way and used to keeping their heads down. It’s a very different situation

There’s no such thing as cis.

Transmen pose no threat to men, and generally “pass” in a way that Transwomen almost universally do not.

Trans identifying men pose the same risk to women as any other men, trans identifying women pose the same risk to men as any other women.

Well trans women are male so not women. So cant be victims of misogyny. Only biological women can be victims of misogyny.

I will have a look for the thread from the other day.

@FeistyFrankie I understand what you mean. And sometimes it does appear that way. Although I think it comes across the other way, in that some trans women appear to say how biological woman should be.
There just doesn't seem to the same from males to trans men.

I guess even when people want to be a different gender, it's still imbalanced.

No one has been questioning how to define what a man is, either.

No. They're men so we can't direct misogyny at them, obviously.

I've never heard of a letter inviting men to an appointment (eg prostate check) for a man or person with a penis or prostate
But when it comes to women it's totally fine to reduce us to people with a cervix or vagina

You mean, almost like people know full well they are women, and who gives a crap about women.

Wtf you on about? How can women be misogynistic towards transwomen? They aren't real women.

A trans man is never going to be footballer of the year or get the Golden Boot.

However a trans woman might well achieve that.

Is that fair and inclusive?

There is a real irony in that.

If trans women were actually treated like women then it would take an absolute age to get an appointment and then they'd likely be told everything will be sorted if they just lose some weight...

Exactly, The more relevant question in some ways is "are there the same issues for men?" Men have far fewer issues with transmen because they are very low risk to them - if a TM comes in a male toilet and doesn't pass well, the main risjk is to the TM, not the men - and likewise TM don't endanger men in changing rooms, prisons, hospital wards etc (and in prisons they are not usually put in with the men as they would be at such great risk themselves). They do not really pose any risk to men's sports and that's why they aren't taking men's medals and prizes.

I do think men should have a right to single-sex spaces, to have a male doctor or intomate carer if they request it and so on - and gay men shouldn't have to entertain TM in their spaces and apps. So I'm not saying TM aren't an issue at all but it isn't generally a danger/crime issue in the way TW often are for women.

I do however think there are many TM that don't pass. If they are younger and have a lot of hormones at a young are they are more likely to have a deep voice and facial hair etc but many are not convincing. IME height, gait, voice and mannerisms often combine to give a strong "TM" vibe plus they often go for distinctive haircuts/colour and clothing style that are unlike most actual men.

There's also an imbalance for trans men in that women as the historically disadvantaged sex do have things like women's writing prizes, support groups, shortlists and so on that are much less common for men. So trans men exclude themselves out of these but get nothing, while being a TW means you go from getting nothing to i=identifying into these opportunities (or at least that has been the case up until the ruling). So TM get all the disadvantages of being female and none of the attempts at redress.

This has been said to trans men.
Men telling woman how to woman again ...

Women who identify as men have caused different types of issue - specifically in healthcare, where words like mother and breastfeeding have been erased in favour of chest feeding and birthing people.

They insist men can miraculously give birth.

Gay men have been told they are transphobic for rejected females who identify as gay men.

Some of them encourage other young women to buy chest binders on Instagram and draw pictures of their mastectomy scars whilst glorifying the scars.

Non binaries are performing “I’m not like other girls” to an extreme

So there are problems yes but whilst not necessarily the physical boundaries being pushed by males who identify as women, the overreach into healthcare and the influence on younger women and girls can’t be underestimated.

"I do think men should have a right to single-sex spaces, to have a male doctor or intomate carer if they request it and so on - and gay men shouldn't have to entertain TM in their spaces and apps. So I'm not saying TM aren't an issue at all but it isn't generally a danger/crime issue in the way TW often are for women"

Well the ehrc guidance is out and says transmen are women and should be using the women's ( whether they can pass as men or not). Except of course where they can be excluded for a legitimate aim (e.g women's refuge) who presumably will need to offer a third space..

.

I don’t know any statistics but I would assume trans men are also at risk of violence/attack from men. In terms of trans men accessing mens spaces there’s no issues from men because they are not the vulnerable party.

It’s interesting though that it’s alway about trans women demanding women rights. Is that just what’s considered newsworthy as it involves making women the bad guy or is it about the entitlement of men?