Are there the same issues for Trans Men?

[Blimpop]

With the Current news topic about trans women and the legal definition of women, it's got me wondering if there are the same issues for trans men? Is it that the similar issues arnt there or it does not get the same media coverage?

Sports wise, most male/men's categories are in fact classed as open, so either male or female could enter as has always been the case.

Also still no need to use the term "cis" it is meaningless and hopefully will fuck off after the SC ruling.

@WandaWomblesaurusWonka i think trans identifying men have been more behind the push to erase the word “woman”.

If women’s healthcare advice says that women need a cervical smear, then that suggests TW aren’t women, as they don’t need one - so instead it is changed to “people with a cervix”. This is not to be kind to women who think they’re men but to feed the lie that TWAW.

Trans men should be using the womens toilets, just like trans women should be using the mens toilets.

The trans men I know absolutely do not 'pass' as men, however I don't believe that everyone could tell as everyone is different, just like with trans women 'passing', some do, some don't.

Yes, but as PPs have said, some “passing” trans people will use the toilet of their gender identity if they can get away with it, and I imagine that would most apply to passing TM, but if they do that they will be less of a risk to the men there than most other men are. It’s not ideal but the risk is overwhelmingly to the TM.

The other way round, hardly any TW pass and women and organisations can now say no males in their spaces and at least be able to challenge the obvious predator, chancers and fetishists and be backed up by the law, which is important for women’s privacy and safety.

of course before all this most single-sex spaces were respected because people self-limited, we all know what sex we are really and while you could enter the opposite sex toilets, you could expect to be challenged and chucked out by those in authority and not pandered to on the basis of self-ID. That’s the main difference, it won’t stop people who are determined but it stops the culture of a total free-for-all for perverts and predators. I hope the pendulum will swing back to most people getting that their sex is the reality of the matter and “gender identity” is a sexist construct and a matter of personal faith that shouldn’t impact on others. But that can’t be changed overnight hence the anger of all the people who have been swept along with this fundamentally nonsense and harmful concept.

I do think TM should use the female toilets and I’m happy to share spaces with them, but given how far so many people especially young women have been led down this road, I think third spaces, ideally single units (because female TM shouldn’t in my view be chucked in with male TW with their markedly higher propensity to sexual offending), are a good idea where at all possible.

I agree, they just seem to go about their day without making a song and dance of it.

And let's face it - who's going to kick up a fuss and demand their rights to use something as grim as the gents' toilets?

I partly agree, but it’s important to recognise that activists like trans man Freddie McConnell are actively pushing for the erasure of sex-based language, often grounded in queer theory and the intellectual quicksand of Judith Butler’s work (see below).

We need to be vigilant about all the areas where this push to dissolve language and boundaries is coming from. It isn’t solely driven by men insisting that ‘trans women are women’ (TWAW). Some women, gripped by internalised misogyny, have become fierce enforcers of this ideology seemingly indifferent to how their denial of biological sex impacts ordinary women in the real world.

We see it not just in the blue-haired, straight women shouting TWAW at protests, but also in a whole ecosystem of influencers and bloggers, many of whom identify as male, who have so thoroughly devalued women that they eagerly add wind to the sails of this chaotic modern iteration of the trans movement. Women are deeply complicit in this shift, and teenage girls, in particular, have become eager foot soldiers, policing language and shaming dissenters with a zeal that would make any authoritarian proud.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/gender-inclusive-definition-father-mother-parent/

“Is a woman less of a mother for not giving birth, or for using a donor egg? If the answer is “no,” and I believe wholeheartedly it is, then the best way to make this clear is to dispense with the dichotomous idea of “biological mother” altogether—along with “to mother” meaning “to give birth to.” Likewise, do we think nonbinary parents are really the “biological mother” or “father” if their gametes are involved? If not, then let’s not use those terms. If we continue using them for cishet parents, we’re still implying them for everyone. Or worse, we are drifting yet again towards a hierarchy of “realness.”

Or worse, we are drifting yet again towards a hierarchy of “realness.”

🤦🏻‍♀️

oh nooo. Not a “hierarchy of realness” - the horror!

These people would sure as hell recognise the heirarchy of realness if they were starving and were presented with some real bread and some Lego bread. Or if they wanted a surrogate to carry their baby and had to choose between a woman and a TW. Or if they urgently needed to get from A to B and there was a taxi, a toy taxi and a photo of a taxi as the options.

As for all this mother crap it’s so missing the point. Yes you can be a mother without being a biological mother because you are being the female parent. This distinction is not the same as claiming to be in the actually mutually exclusive category of male parent.

McConnell gave birth which in the real world is an act bound biologically to the female body, regardless of identity. Freddie then sought to be recorded on the babies birth certificate as “father” or “parent” demanding the law to erase the material, biological fact of what had happened and redefine it purely based on self-perception and rejection of female biology. When the courts (still barely moored to reality) upheld the use of “mother” to mean “person who gave birth,” Freddie framed this as an infringement of human rights. And then this has been presented to the public not as a tragedy of confused ideology, but as a progressive moment we should all applaud.

Freddie isn’t thinking about what happens if the boundaries are broken and any biological male says he’s the mother. The consequences of which are chilling. Freddie’s demand to redefine “mother” around personal identity, not biological reality, is reckless. If we erase “mother” as meaning the person who gives birth, we destroy critical legal protections for women and children.
Once any biological male can claim the title, predators will exploit it, records will be falsified, and safeguarding will collapse.
This isn’t inclusion, it’s erasure.

Agree Wanda, I was just addressing the way people use the argument that you can be called a mother as an adoptive mother etc so that means mothers should be called fathers, which I think doesn't hold together. But yes a biological mother is in reality a mother, not a father and also in law which is as it should be.

I also find it awful that Freddie doesn't care two hoots about the DC involved here - what about their experience of their "father" who is actually their mother and how they will feel about it all when things become clearer to them. I'm sure Freddie will bring them up in the gender faith but that doesn't automatically mean they'll stay in it, or won't have any questions or issues.

I read an interview a while ago with a TW who had decided to "come out" late in life for whatever reason. But he, and I will call him he for good reason, was clear that his teenage kids still called him dad and he, because that was their reality and it wasn't fair him to just pull the rug out from under them and insist on them putting him in a role/giving him a name that belonged to someone else, their mum. I respected that he actually took other people's feelings into account, realised that the whole thing wasn't easy for his kids and it wasn't all me me me.

Freddie doesn't seem to have any such empathy, it's all about what Freddie demands.

I really worry about Freddie’s DC. Not quite as much as the child whose father (I think he may be TIM, though) declaring that his year old baby is ‘gay’. There are some other claims which I won’t repeat for fear of being deleted.

I believe the DC were IVF babies? 😥

💯 @WhatterySquash- I’ve just been thinking a lot recently about how so many women have pushed for this boundary breaking nonsense. And how suddenly transmen are being used as a gotcha by Transactivists. Women have long advocated for trans identifying women to have support regarding safety etc but there seems to be a concerted push from trans identifying women to reject this along with aggressively dismantling boundaries that affect women. Women they regard as lesser than them. See also the Non Binary religion.

It’s such a mess that stems from basic rejection of reality of our sexed bodies and also a complete refusal from men and women in the trans community and their cheerleaders to acknowledge male violence against women as being anything to do with biology. They seem to think that a man with a wig on is getting the same misogyny as a woman.

The amount of memes I’m seeing now being shared by women talking about JKR doing genital inspections. I wonder if people are just losing their minds.