Supreme Court ruling: can women’s groups still choose to allow trans women?

[Blackdow]

I’m just looking for someone to explain it to me. Sorry 🤦‍♀️.

Now that’s it’s been clarified in law than trans women do not come under the “women” category in the equality act, so we can use the single sex exemption to keep them out without fear of being sued, can place still choose to allow them?

For instance, a sexual assault support group for women or a woman’s group of any kind was previously being told they had to allow trans women as the equality act was being misrepresented. Now, the single sex exemption can be used properly so trans women can be told no. But what if they group wanted to allow them? Is the single sex exemption optional? Or do they now have to follow it? I’m just trying to make sure I understand it.

Yes, they can include anyone they like, but it means it's no longer a single sex environment.

So then if they advertise is as “single sex support,” but allow transwomen, they are doing something wrong?

I’m asking as we’ve had communication from a local support group I use, which was always advertised as single sex but has had a few transwomen turning up and our complaints were ignored, and they’ve said they will continue to operate with women and transwomen welcome but no men welcome so is remaining a “single sex women’s support group.” And it just feels like they can’t say that.
So they have to call themselves mixed sex and would then have to allow women, trans and men? Or specifically call themselves a women’s and trans women’s group?

After decades, I'm now so bored of people identifying their entire self based on their preference for what goes where. Just get on with it and let's start talking about something more interesting for a change.

You can argue that sex in the EA refers to biological sex, not gender. That means that someone born a woman or man , not someone with a GRC.

They can't call it a single sex group if it's not single sex.

If you’re so bored then you can just keep your mouth shut and stay off threads where people just want to clarify what it all means. Clearly, it has nothing to do with you.

So, a mixed sex group? Shouldn't it be described as such so it doesn't misrepresent?

That’s what I thought they would have to change to, but they’re sticking with “single sex sexual assault support group” which admits women and transwomen. But you wouldn’t know it admitted trans women till you got there and saw them (I know because I’m already in the group, and know they go and got the email from the organiser confirming that they are still welcome but all branding will remain the same and say single sex, so new people turning up for help won’t know that there will be male bodies present).

They are actively misrepresenting themselves by describing it as single sex if the group contains members from both sexes.

That's dreadful, op. Hopefully, as the judgement is fully absorbed all this bollocks will be behind us.

I think the problem is unless you’re going to take them to court, I’m not sure how you could enforce it either way?

on the ground people will do plenty of things of don’t comply with law but unless it’s enforced they usually get away with it

Surely if they are accepting transwomen they are now accepting males according to the EA, so if a man wanted to join they couldn't turn him away because that would be sex discrimination therefore its a mixed sex group

The EHRC say they are bringing out new guidance following the judgment.

I think this is very unfair to women and a lot of noise should be made about it to protect people who need these support groups.

Why not rebrand selves as "single gender" group if TWs welcome.
Stop using the "sex" word. Problem solved.

But that would assume that everyone is aware that sex and gender are different. If the ONS census showed us anything, it's that people who have poor literacy or for whom English is a second language are dumbfounded by the play of language in this arena and therefore left ill equipped to make informed decisions around it.

This is an excellent point.

If the group accepts transwomen then they wil also have to accept men who are not transwomen.

They can’t have it both ways

Of course, a group can allow anyone to join that they choose BUT they cannot claim its a single sex group if they allow people of the opposite sex in.
They NEVER had to allow men into a womens only group but as the law was not clear on what a woman was people erred on the side of caution, they no longer have to do that.

I agree with @AquaPeer they will carry on doing what they like until they are forced to stop. That means someone taking one for the team and challenging them till a method of challenge forces them to stop.
Maybe it is worth it to you or maybe it is not. That is their strength. Whoever challenges them pays a price.

They can’t choose to exclude some men. They have to either exclude all men or no men. So all men including trans women can go, or no men, including trans women, can go.

Because sex and gender mean the same thing in every dictionary. This idea that gender is something different is made up fantasy.

This is it exactly.

They should advertise that they welcome women and transwomen so that everyone understands who will be attending the group.

This is also where I am confused. I think they should advertise as a groups for “women and trans women”. Then everyone just knows exactly what it is and who might be there. I’m annoyed that they don’t want to put that into their adverts or flyers or anything so they’re hiding it or making women think it will be for women only when it isn’t and they won’t listen to complaints.
But this clarification of the EA means you can’t do that? They’re not allowed to have a group for that? So it has to be either male or female.

I just thought they could no longer call themselves single sex or advertise as a group for women and just wanted them to be clear about who attends their group. But this ruling actually means the group cannot exist in it’s current form unless they allow all other men too.

I was going to reply to the email but I don’t think I’d be able to explain it properly so I won’t, and will just give up with this group if even the Supreme Court ruling won’t make them change.

Exactly.

Any group can allow anyone or anything to join it.

However, if members of the opposite sex are allowed to join, it’s clearly no longer just for women.

In order to operate a single sex space you are relying on the single sex exceptions in the Equality Act. It’s now been clarified that the protected characteristic of sex applies to people born into that sex only. Whether you can smoosh two protected characteristics together is I think a bit of a grey area still. If you run a partially mixed sex space and claim it is single sex, I think you are opening yourself up to claims from both the sex who should expect a single sex space, and other members of the opposite sex who you have told are not welcome in this space.