Touchy-feely men at work

[Askingforadvice78]

This is something I'm just wondering.

There are a few touchy-feely men at my work. For example, one adjusted my polo neck and said, I think affectionately, "Does no one look at you before you leave in the morning?" He will also tap or quickly rub my shoulders, or, for example, take a bit of fluff from my dress on my outer thigh area. Another man rubs my shoulders or arms too, to say hello. Like, he'll greet me but with a rub on my arms from behind. Not with words. Then there's a third who has mentioned that I am good looking and when I have commented about my age (I'm mid forties) it turns into more compliments. Which I don't really want or need. I'm pretty sure there's nothing in my behaviour which is needy. Or vulnerable.

I feel like I'm being stupid, but I don't know if men should touch you like this? I don't really think they fancy me, they are all married, I just think they're being kind but why do they feel they should be or can touch me in this way? I suppose they might do it to all women. I've also wondered if they do it because I am a small woman, so maybe they think I need looking after? Sometimes I think it's flirtatious, but I don't know if I misread the situation.

I was wondering what you might think. I wondered if you had any similar experiences.

Not sure if it's relevant, but I am happily married and fidelity is extremely important to me and my fab husband.

You can’t throw your tea over them deliberately but what if you were startled and just happened to throw your tea ….
😉

I’ve done that with a pint!

I once had a counsellor who touched my knee when I was upset. I’m still not sure what that was about but I certainly wasn’t in a position to object in the moment. Sometimes I really hate being female and having to deal with this shit.

I get it all the time, I’m surprised in this day and age that they aren’t more cautious about potentially getting their heads bitten off.

You don’t have to be extreme. It would suffice to say: ‘can you not touch me. I really don’t like it’.

Subsequent occurrences could prompt a ‘do you not remember what I said to you’, followed by a complaint to HR.

Not acceptable.

The trouble with handsy men like this is that if they aren't aggressively rebuffed by their target, they take it as carte blanche to carry on.

Because you are either trying to be polite in a professional environment or are all too aware that they are senior to you, it is difficult to navigate the right approach without actually screaming "Fuck off" at the top of your voice.

That's happened to me before with a line manager. I was upset too. I wondered at the time whether it's just human to touch someone who's upset but it made me freeze. He was a man who was most definitely sleazy though, and works somewhere else now. A woman line manager would not have touched me. I KNOW this.

Would you grab their wrist, dig your nails in and say "don't". I give off a very chilly vibe indeed, to the extent that people don't even shake my hand when doing the rounds (I don't offer either) so can't imagine anyone trying to touch me like this.

I had a french teacher (male, of course) who touched my shoulder when looking at my work. I flinched epically and said "don't touch me!" out of pure reaction and he never did again.

Also:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-protections-from-sexual-harassment-come-into-force

I'm a teacher so I do have a death stare!! 😂

It’s just horrid, isn’t it? I’m so done with it. If it helps, I am often described as having a resting bitch face and am very tall and talk pretty formally/sternly. And yet I have STILL had unwanted attention from men all my bloody life. Honestly, it’s not being petite or any signals you’re giving out. It’s just them.

I wouldn't touch them back even if it was to grab their wrist. I don't like touching other people, except my family. I could jump epically though - I am good at jumping out of my skin and I could exaggerate that nicely!

Thing is, is adjusting someone's polo neck or taking fluff off their dress sexual harassment? Commenting on my 'youthful' looks, yes, but he'll just say he was being kind and tidying me up! I'm not especially messy but I'm getting my own kids up in the morning and racing to them to school... An awry polo neck or piece of fluff is the least of my worries!

It is all sexual harassment, regardless of where they touch you!

It’s a grey area, I know. But you don’t like it and you don’t think they’re doing it to men. Ergo it is certainly because of your sex and if it is upsetting you it could constitute harassment. The word sexual is a bit of a red herring in this context, it doesn’t necessarily mean what one might think.

I think in this day and age at work men should understand you just don’t touch women and that could be communicated in training, so no awkwardness for you.

if I saw fluff on clothing or spotted a collar that needed straightening then I would say that. Not touch the person. The only time I would physically touch a person to sort this out was if it was DH or one of my kids.

They shouldn't be touching you at all unless you are great friends and you are perfectly ok with it. Next time just shrug them off and say you like your personal space. If they do it again, tell them very directly you don't like being touched, you have already told them and if they do it again you'll report them.

I once had a boss like this, and it made me really uncomfortable but then I watched him and he did it with all the males too, he was just a touchy guy. But, I think this is rare. If you don't like it just say. I'd say, "dude, personal space ... keep your hands to yourself thanks."

I’m old now but back in the day, they were asked politely, the first time, to “please not touch me”. The second time they were told to “only do that again if you are prepared to have your arm broken”. I never had to say it a third time.

Yes this is normal of men in society. But that doesn't make it right does it?

Workplaces should be places where we are protected and don't have to deal with it.

Tell him to stop and if he doesn’t report it to HR.

"Touch me again and I'll break your fingers"

I have found holding up a hand in a stop gesture and saying please don't touch me, works well. It also stops unwanted hugs.

One man I worked with had a meltdown when I wouldn't let him touch my pregnant belly. He went round complaining to every other member of the office, all of whom backed me up.

Asserting boundaries can seem uncomfortable when you first start but it is so worth it. If they don't respect your boundaries then take it to HR.

You need a phrase you can learn and repeat, along with a big step back

”there’s no need to touch me, I can sort it myself”
”there’s no need to comment on my looks, this is a workplace”

Because you are exercising your rights!

To ask ‘why they feel they can do it’ is not an approach that is going to stop them from doing it. Only you taking action will stop them doing it.

We are all kinds of women:- bold, confident, gentle, nice, not nice, feminine, shy, angry, assertive, less so….but we do have a voice and your are supported. Take a deep breath and say ‘Do you know what…..’ Go for it x

I find "Do not stroke me. I am not a cat", said in a straight, firm, unfunny, non-cute way very effective. I have only once had to escalate from that.