Calling HR/Office Managers please

[RightSideTwisted]

(NC for this.)

For legitimate business reasons you are about to turn down a request to drop to four days from a highly valued staff member. Roughly 75% of staff at the same level are part time.

How do you stop them walking? Is there a compromise?

Any suggestions would be appreciated, thank you.

How could anybody on here know if there's a compromise? We don't know the business's operations, the employee's reasons for wanting to go PT, how easy it would be to find another job, and a thousand other factors.

I’d try to get to the bottom of why they want to reduce hours and see what can be accommodated. For example would a few days a week working from home be possible
instead of reducing hours, or doing compressed hours or could the 4 days be across 5 so two 1/2 days instead of a whole day off work (I do this as I was initially refused 4 days due to being a manager). It really depends on why they’re asking to reduce their hours and the reason it can’t currently be accommodated. If you value them as an employee I’d always try to find a way to make it work.

Fair point. I'll take that as a no then!

(Was replying to ArtTheClownIsNotAMime)

You don't, simply. If nearly everybody else gets to do it but not them, you'll end up having to find somebody for five days - and how does that sit with 'legitimate business reasons'?

You can't. They'll probably walk. Would you rather have them for 80% of the week, or not at all?

As regards a compromise, would it be possible for the employee to work 4 longer days and get the fifth day off (ie the employee works full-time hours compressed into a 4 day week)?

Would you rather have them 4 days or zero? As I suspect that’s what will happen. Surely you can’t say no when most other people are doing it. Don’t cut off your nose to spite your face type situation it seems.

Would allowing the employee to drop to 4.5 days work as a compromise?

It would be useful to have more idea of the employee's circumstances. For example, coming in every day, but working shorter hours each day might work as a compromise for an employee who lives 10 minutes' walk from work, but is unlikely to be attractive to an employee with an hour long commute each way.

I think this may be the way to go.

Thanks everyone.

Not HR, but as a member of staff I would be mightily pissed off if most of my colleagues were part time and I wasn't allowed to. I'd probably raise a grievance.
It's better to retain already trained staff than have to have to recruit and train new staff who wouldn't be working at maximum capacity in the early days.

This.

I’d be wanting to understand the problem. It could be a temporary thing, it could be that the work is too stressful and she needs help (does she do more than the others due to her experience?), it could be that pick up and drop off are too difficult or shift working partner issues etc that will make her leave if she doesn’t get what she needs.

Why can’t it be accommodated? Is anyone else trained to do her job, if not perhaps that could be considered as part of resilience so she can go?

Would every second Friday (or whatever day she wants) be possible instead of say every Friday? Or a half day off per week?

Is it likely other staff would want to drop hours as if you had more requests it would justify recruitment of someone new for two or three days a week? Taking on another part time team member could help solve the problem?

I hope your workplace isn’t doing the knee jerk “ let’s get back to the way we were before covid “ thing, as things have changed, nurseriesclosed, bus services reduced, relatives that used to provide childcare died, etc so sometimes we just can’t go back to the way it used to be and need to bemoreflexible.

My managers are very understanding. I’d do anything to help them asi appreciate that. It’s a two way street.

I agree. I’m not sure you could justify saying no in a situation where the majority are already part time. I’d be looking for a new job.

If the majority are already part time and this creates issues with cover then that is a valid business reason to decline the request. But you’ll likely lose the staff member.
A FWR doesn’t have to be a permanent change. Try condensed hours (so still full time) or 4 days on a trial basis for x months and see if that meets business need with a review at the end. At least you’re showing willing. If that doesn’t work then you’ve tried.

Have you looked at anyone else who’s part time increasing their hours a bit to cover? In this financial climate it’s worth an ask.
Also a 9 day fortnight could be worth a discussion?

If it’s not possible from the start, be really clear about the reasons for saying no.

I am HR and yes, you absolutely can justify it. “Everyone else is” isn’t a business reason for doing something.

Not always.

Out of interest, why have you assumed the request has come from a woman?

So three quarters of the staff are PT but you’re saying that this particular employee has to do compressed hours if they want to drop a day?

I’d still leave if that was the arrangement offered to me.

Also agree with asking if anyone wants to increase their hours. I’ve done this and got a very valued member of staff offering to come in an extra day a week.

I'm HR and the fact that the majority are already part time makes it more likely you'd say no, not less likely. As pp have said, it's about business reasons. You can't keep reducing the number of hours in which the work needs to be done. I had to say no to someone who argued that as her colleague's request was agreed, hers should be too. Unfortunately because her colleague's had already been agreed, that's why we had to say no to her.

See this is exactly the problem.

I'm the employee BTW (I've been told I'm "highly valued" 😇).

They've been so accommodating to fee earners and secretaries alike, it's meant my boss has had to pick up the slack which has filtered down to me. I'm now working harder than I ever have as is my boss. These are all people who have started after me - applying for FT jobs and then we're told "oh they'll be working Monday to Thursday".

My reasons for wanting to drop a day are simply that I'm 61 and a bit knackered. Not quite financially ready for retirement. I'd really like to carve out a bit of time for myself now like every other fucker after working full time since I was 19. They know this.

I'm always at least a day behind simply due to the volume of work so I fully understand why it's going to be a no.

My current thinking is to ask for every other Friday as suggested by a pp. It will probably still be a no and actually I don't fancy longer but fewer days notwithstanding my earlier comment.

I know they're desperate for me to stay but they've painted themselves into a bit of a corner.

Ironically I can see clearly what changes need to be made across the firm but (frustratingly) it's not my place to tell them how to do their job is it?

Stop working harder. Do just what you're paid to do. Leave on time and don't start work early.

You're not looking to impress or improve career progression, you just want to wind down to retirement - stop giving a toss, it's not your company.

Seems like in this case they’re saying its ok to new people.

OP I’d make sure you don’t do any extra work then. It sounds like they need to hire an extra person. If they’ve said no to you then why yes to new hires!

And this is why we end up with the malicious compliance board on Reddit.

They’d rather you quit than let you have one day off. So people quit quietly and find a more flexible employer, and company is left with no one to do the work and a gap while they recruit. So short sighted.

You're right.

I'm happy to give my all during working hours but I don't do overtime or extra hours. Those days are long gone!

It did cross my mind that it could be a man but statistically more woman go kart time so I treated it as a woman employee but it makes no odds as my advice is the same as I’d treat them the same whether it not they had dangly bits.

Did you have a point to make if it was a man instead?