Is this cultural or is he being really rude and aggressive?

[Whitetruck]

We have a South African site manager at work. White man in his 60s, only recently moved to UK after selling his business in SA.

He's good at his job and can't do enough for people but when talking to staff will stand really close, wag a finger in their face and say "listen" at the start of every sentence.

He comes across as the very worst kind of patronising middle aged man, but is actually very kind in many ways.

Its a South African thing, Skin colour (and sex) is irrelevant.

Having met (and dated) a few South Africans I think the ‘Listen…’ is a figure of speech and they don’t realise how rude it sounds to British ears. The only real way to see whether it’s cultural or aggressive is to address it with him and see if he tries to change or not.

Fwiw he actually has a really good rapport with black students and his business in SA was training black farmers to work on their newly owned farms

Just tell him the finger wagging comes across as aggressive in the UK for most people. No need to make a big deal of it.

"Listen" would not be such a problem in Ireland, any more than "Look" would be in parts of the UK, but if you think it's a problem, tell him that too.

It doesn't really matter how he formed the habit - whether it's cultural, had some origin in racism, patriarchy etc. Just treat it as a different work culture thing, since that's how it's manifesting itself.

The middle to older aged S.Africans I have met have been very direct, but also very courteous. I don't recall any finger wagging. But it's a big country.

I think you just have to say,.directly but kindly, that finger wagging is regarded as rude here and gets people's backs up.

And see how he responds to that

I work a lot with south Africans i have never come across this...( mostly cape towners)

Yes they want things "now now" but that's about the extent of any rudeness. They are actually very polite in my experience!

If he does it all the time it sounds like a habit ...in terms of practical solves you could talk to him about giving people space which solves half of it...
And just saying wagging fingers are a no its rude keep your hands in your pockets!

Breaking the habit of saying "listen" and might be a bit harder as im guessing its a bit like trying to not say ummmm every time you pause if you say ummm a lot...
I dont find "listen" or "listen here" rude but my family is Irish so you are just as likely to hear some good gossip as you are to get a telling off if someone starts with "listen here to me"

Where does it say op isn't white?

How can it be racist when you don't know ops race! And, he apparently does it to everyone .

Sounds like people bringing race into it are racist against white men tbh

What happens if someone steps back from the finger wagging and puts their hand in the way? Because I think I’d do that instinctively if it was my face.

Many non British cultures are far more direct and less polite than the Brits. Its seen as the way of doing business.

And people have different personalities, some people will handle things more light heartedly, some people are more heavy handed, nothing really to do with culture.

I'd just be direct though and say you can't go up to people at work and point your finger in their face.

It’s cultural . I’ve seen it with SA people a lot

Go away with your unfounded assumptions. Have you even visited SA within the last decade? Things have changed. My dh worked there for five years and white and black peoples work alongside each other very well.

Same. I’ve worked with a few South Africans and they are blunt and direct in a way that can come across as rude if you don’t know them. They are actually some of my favourite colleagues now, and really genuine supportive people (which is pretty rare in my line of work).

I knew I'd read this thread before! I wonder if it's the same person...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4668589-is-this-cultural-or-is-he-just-being-an-arse

The only South African Ive known to be racist was a young woman, in her 20s.

I work with South Africans and they are direct.

I say listen at the start of most sentences, probably a bit of a verbal tic. Im a UK female!

Currently working with two

worked with a few in the past (left London two years ago, just saying as I now live in the sticks and don't meet anyone outside my established client base these days). Dated a young one when i was young.

it really bugs me when people think one type of stereotype is fine.

I'm a woman of colour, which shouldn't be relevant but sadly I suspect it is. Uniformly deciding all the white men of one particular country are racist strikes me as...racist? Xenophobic? Combination?

I find white south africans in general to be very rude and used to bossing a certain demographic around.

My 60 year old female lodger used to say to me "i'm telling you now".

Hmm, are you indeed.

It kind of is cultural, but it’s not acceptable here in the UK so he needs to be told to stop.

I also had “listen” and finger jabbing from a man of the same age and background, I always assumed it was just him

do you know where I am from or have you assumed I am white abd British?

I'm not sure why you feel you can respond on the OP's behalf?

Wagging fingers in someone's face is not reflective of 'people's differences'.

It is plain rude, and the only appropriate response is to take a huge step back and state "please do not wag your finger at me!"

So many morons on here accusing a random man of racism just because he’s white. Pathetic.

I'm telling you now is another thing you'd hear from Irish people - meaning something like "seriously", "honestly" or "you'll never believe it, but ...'.

Different cultures have different filler words and phrases. I wouldn't take offence without more context.

Potentially cultural. I once had a South African manager and initially thought him very rude but I think they’re just quite direct and more brusque with how they speak. We are a bit more flowery in the UK

Well, because this is a public discussion.
Did you not realise?