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Should boys start School later than girls?

60 replies

senmed · 04/04/2025 14:57

In the aftermath of the whole Adolescence show and the current concern for boys and men I listened to some experts on a podcast talk about how to support young men. One thing that was mentioned was how girls mature faster than boys and that women's brain development is around 18 months ahead of males and as a result boys should be held back a year from starting primary school. So in that case girls would start school at approximately 5 and boys would start at 6 years old, I am assuming in the same cohort.

I'm not sure about this, surely it this would likely cause a massive disadvantage to girls and leave them dealing at a younger age with boys who are older by a year or more than them all though school. There was also the suggestion that school is designed to advantage girls because in school you need to sit quietly, facing the front, put your hand up, be quiet and well behaved and that we need to redesign schools to make them work for boys. This kind of thing always annoys me when I hear it because even back in time when most children were not educated but the sons of the wealthy were educated in classrooms this was the set up which was designed for boys, to sit in a classroom at your desk and work. I also resent the implication that all girls are one way and all boys are another.

I myself was the youngest in my class at 4 when I started School which did cause me some issues. I struggled with having to sit all day, I was always someone who learned by doing and so I excelled more at art, music and ballet until I got to high school where I began to do well academically. There were certainly plenty of boys in my class from primary who had no issue sitting quietly in class and doing their work.

I know there is an issue, part of it is the lack of good opportunities for non academic boys, a lot of that is also down to the fact that wages have not kept up with the cost of living. Modern tech and addictions can be destructive and harmful to both boys and girls but in different ways. I do want boys to be helped but its difficult to listen to this kind of thing and not hear "boys are falling behind and girls are doing better so we need to make things harder for girls so boys can do better again".

Surely their is a better way of doing this?

The expert in the podcast also seemed to suggest that little girls even though they faced more trauma in childhood were less affected by it long term than boys were. That girls were mostly "dandelions" which can thrive anywhere under any conditions but that boys were more likely to be "orchids" who need special care and attention to thrive. Forgive me if I call bullshit on that one.

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 04/04/2025 16:54

happysunr1se · 04/04/2025 15:39

My Chinese DH said that in Hong Kong they used to have 2 sessions in a school, morning til early afternoon and then afternoon til early evening.

If this was utilized you could even have super schools where the school is a primary in the morning and a secondary in the afternoon, changing staff as necessary.

Starting after lunch and finishing in the evening might suit teenagers.

You’d need to change the furniture as well as the staff!😂

ohnowwhatcanitbe · 04/04/2025 16:55

BatchCookBabe · 04/04/2025 15:03

That sounds like a terrible idea. Boys are behind girls as it is by a couple of years all through school. (Well, many of them are.) This would achieve nothing. Only to disadvantage boys.

It doesn't appear to disadvantage them in the workplace. Only 10% of the FTSE 100 chief executives are women.

GildedRage · 04/04/2025 17:00

the problem with your op and some of the answers is that you are trying to fit the boys into the current girl centered system including the grades and exit points.
it might be easier to review why men are opting out of boys lives, why boys are not growing up with better role models.
should we not want to tackle the actual starting point but want to help boys with poor male role models a total overhaul of education would be needed one easy overhaul would be the teen brain/sleep start school day for teens at 11am.
boys only classes for part of the school day with mixed classes for certain subjects or doing away with grades and everything being by sets with no relationship to age (year 3 math would have a mix of boys and girls of all ages simply based on the stage of math skills they are at for example) however this would be as much of a shake up at the trump tariff fiasco.
better to find out why there are so many single moms raising boys with zero healthy helpful male role models.

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Favouritefruits · 04/04/2025 17:00

I think nursery nurses rather than TAs should be in Reception classes (like they used to be) to help some of the late developers, going to the toilets, eating with cutlery and turn taking and other things to support those children and get them up to scratch rather than starting Year 1 at a disadvantage.

worcesterpear · 04/04/2025 17:04

Yes my girls would also have benefited from starting school later and I hate generalisations about either sex.

The best way would be for school to start later for both, eg age six, but nursery type childcare/education available for those who want it. And if a child was obviously ready to move on, it would be much easier to move a child up a year.

Hoardasurass · 04/04/2025 17:07

W0tnow · 04/04/2025 15:00

Do girls mature faster? As in, is there scientific evidence for this? Or are societal expectations the driver of more ‘mature’ behaviours in girls?

As an aside I think 4 is way too young to start school. For either sex.

Yes puberty starts in girls earlier than boys (9-12 vs 11-14) this means that girls brains start the pubital process of maturing earlier than boys. That said I know of no research that points to any difference in brain maturation between prepubescent boys and girls.

TizerorFizz · 04/04/2025 17:45

@Favouritefruits Why do you think parents should not be able to teach those things?

TizerorFizz · 04/04/2025 17:53

@senmedYes it can give an advantage. Essentially a year to mature and do better. My DD as an August born wax already neatly 1 year younger than others. Then if May summer borns are delayed, loads of DC could have been more than 1 year older than her. A term older in fact. We do have to stick to a system and it’s what it is. People, when given an opportunity, always seek to get an advantage. I think if they miss YR it’s into Y1 to start.

However I still think a staggered start is better. At 4 my DD didn’t need to be held up. Others could need an extra term or 15 terms to mature and be potty trained and learn to eat with cutlery! Whatever they need really. But it should be monitored and not just a request for no good reason. That’s what we used to do 30 years ago. The DC who aren’t ready need identifying and help given to be ready.

HazeyjaneIII · 04/04/2025 18:06

Favouritefruits · 04/04/2025 17:00

I think nursery nurses rather than TAs should be in Reception classes (like they used to be) to help some of the late developers, going to the toilets, eating with cutlery and turn taking and other things to support those children and get them up to scratch rather than starting Year 1 at a disadvantage.

Do you not think TAs and early years teachers already support with those things?

Vitrolinsanity · 04/04/2025 18:12

Start the boys earlier. Cue utter outrage.

HazeyjaneIII · 04/04/2025 18:19

burningmountain · 04/04/2025 16:34

All children should start school later. Formal school should not start till 7 and all children should have high quality early years provision before that.

Schools should encourage more activity (especially active play) in school. Sitting down so much is really bad for, well anyone, and especially young children..

Agree with PP that high school starts too early in the morning as well.

School should offer more for non-academic children.

Basically, we need to seriously rethink of education around the developmnet needs of children and young people and around the diversity of children and diversity of need in the future workforce.

I really liked what Finnish maths teacher said. ' school is about finding out what you love.'

Year R, if it is done as it is set out in the EYFS is (or should be) largely play based, with continuous provision inside and outside... there may be a little bit of carpet based sitting and some sitting for crafts, drawing and early writing - but the majority of the day will be play.
I think the leap in expectations from yr R to year 1, however is too great... and I think this does need to be looked at.

Snorlaxo · 04/04/2025 18:21

The current system of funding the term after the child turns 3 should be changed so that everybody in that school year gets funding at the same time or reverse the funding so summer borns of that school year get it first. It’s illogical that the kids who generally need EY education the most, get the funding 2 terms afterwards but are in the same school year.

HazeyjaneIII · 04/04/2025 18:23

I am also wondering about the, sometimes quite stark, differences between some yr1 boys (6) and yrR girls (4/5)...with regards to size, energy levels, speech, toileting... I think itbis a bit of a minefield to be honest!!

Ponderingwindow · 04/04/2025 18:27

Even from the very first year, we already had so many problems with massively large boys towering over dd. She has always been very small and will always be petite as an adult. They would knock her over just by walking by her. They weren’t trying to be rough, they were just young children who were too strong to be in a space with fragile children. Adding another year or two would have made it downright dangerous.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 04/04/2025 19:14

iMO there should be no formal education before 6, when they would all - perhaps especially boys - be that much more ready for Until then it should all IMO be play-based.

Favouritefruits · 04/04/2025 19:34

HazeyjaneIII · 04/04/2025 18:06

Do you not think TAs and early years teachers already support with those things?

In our school no, they don’t and shouldn’t have to help with things like toilet training. It’s not their job too

TizerorFizz · 04/04/2025 19:35

@Ponderingwindow what do you do about DC who are ready to read at 4 then? Disappoint them because others aren’t ready? Even in countries where formal education doesn’t start until 6, reading is allowed if you are bright enough. I’ve actually known DC work out words before they go to school and understand what they are reading. I don’t believe DC who need more should be held back.

However others should join at intervals. We introduced DDs to books as babies and by 5 they were enjoying books and pushing on with reading because if resonated with them. Obviously a child with no introduction to books might take longer, so let them have longer. Lots of EY learning is through play: it just happens to be in a school.

DorothyStorm · 04/04/2025 19:39

Favouritefruits · 04/04/2025 17:00

I think nursery nurses rather than TAs should be in Reception classes (like they used to be) to help some of the late developers, going to the toilets, eating with cutlery and turn taking and other things to support those children and get them up to scratch rather than starting Year 1 at a disadvantage.

That is ‚parenting‘ not teaching

HazeyjaneIII · 04/04/2025 20:52

Favouritefruits · 04/04/2025 19:34

In our school no, they don’t and shouldn’t have to help with things like toilet training. It’s not their job too

You said..."going to the toilets, eating with cutlery and turn taking and other things to support those children"
..you didn't actually say toilet training.
However, TAs in Early Years, should of course be helping support with the things you mentioned...that is part if the EYFS.
I'm interested as to what the TAs in your Reception class do?

W0tnow · 04/04/2025 21:22

Hoardasurass · 04/04/2025 17:07

Yes puberty starts in girls earlier than boys (9-12 vs 11-14) this means that girls brains start the pubital process of maturing earlier than boys. That said I know of no research that points to any difference in brain maturation between prepubescent boys and girls.

I mean socially though. Not physically.

ItsLikeClimbingAMounjaro · 04/04/2025 21:42

Was this the CEO one? It was a hard listen, wasn't it?

senmed · 04/04/2025 21:44

ItsLikeClimbingAMounjaro · 04/04/2025 21:42

Was this the CEO one? It was a hard listen, wasn't it?

Yeah it was making me quite angry, I think they were trying not to lean too much into manosphere rhetoric but they sailed pretty close to the wind.

OP posts:
MoreDangerousThanAWomanScorned · 04/04/2025 21:52

Like you, I think this idea is pretty mad. It sounds problematic from the off, but the effect would just get worse and worse as the children age - do we really want 12 year old girls and 14 year old boys in the same class? Does anyone want that for their daughter?

I also don't understand when this golden age for boys where school was all about moving around was. I would also say that, from my own very, very anecdotal experience people massively overestimate how much sitting down and all looking quietly at the front there really is in the early years of primary school. I have a summer born boy and was very worried about it, but he's in year 2 now and I've been massively relieved really.

Ladychatterly86 · 04/04/2025 21:56

Secondary teacher and mother of Reception aged boy. I agree with lots a PP said. I think up to age 6-7 learning should be play based. Also agree, that secondary schools should start later in the morning, and that there should be a greater depth to the curriculum. The transition from primary to secondary in terms of academics and expectations seems to hit young boys much harder. The curriculum is also very knowledge and content heavy at both primary and secondary. Probably to the detriment of enjoyment of learning for both boys and girls. Lots of research to support this and other European/Scandinavian Education models. But ultimately, Education in this country is seen as 'childcare' and as such hasn't progressed due to the impact it would have on most families.

GetMeOutOfMeta · 04/04/2025 21:59

I think we should have mixed schools but sexed lessons. Girls do better at STEM without boys and boys less likely to show off for girls so it would see schools improving grades.

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