Are We Feeling Liberated Yet? - Trump thread #141

[Spandauer]

King Donald has bigly new tariffs, First Lady Elmo turns out to be ballot box poison and 'Pick Me Girl' Vance is a meanie to the EU.

(But at least the penguins on the Heard and McDonald Islands are wearing suits)

Previous thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5297058-trumpmusk-the-doge-and-pony-show-continues-trump-thread-140

Essentially the rest of the world and sporting bodies are moving towards biological females only in women’s sports so that’s the way it’s going to be. You decide that it should be based on gender but you aren’t going to be able to compete outside your own country on that basis. If you want your sporting dominance back you will have to not have trans women competing in women’s sports.

The same is true for MAGA economists. You can decide that all of the known rules of economics don’t apply because everyone needs you more than you need them. But the reality is they do apply and wiping $5.2 trillion dollars off your stock markets in 2 days is going to damage how dominant you are economically if that keeps happening.

I think is what TIP was saying.

Yes, men have no place in women’s sports. That doesn’t stop Trump being a bigly orange arsehole though

I don't think that's a great analogy, nor do I think dragging the trans issue into this kicking and screaming is great.

@pointythings
He's a hulking lad who was dropped from the male team at the end of last season so started competing as female.
He's a bloke with long hair.

See also Zach Bridges (dropped from male team, grew hair, joined female team)
Will Thomas (dropped from male team, grew hair, joined female team)
Cliff Telfer (dropped from male team, grew hair, joined female team)

Do we move forward with reality or ideology ?

@pointythings
There is no "trans issue"
There is a reality issue
Do we accept reality
or not ?

Trump has not
But those 'opposing him' have also not
which leaves them VERY vulnerable on the world stage

Frankly after the horrific persecution of Imane Khelif, I'm inclined to take all these anti trans witch hunts with several grains of salt. I've looked up the examples you quoted - these are hardly athletes who have set the world on fire, and none of them are fencers, which is what your quote was about.

And anyone who voted for Trump because of anti trans ideology is an idiot. Women face so many issues which are bigger by several orders of magnitude - and this is what you focus on? Madness.

Checking in

Well I am the mum of a female athlete. Both she and I feel differently than you do, but I guess maybe because she was good but not olympic calibre (she's finishing med school now) I'm incapable of understanding how I would feel about the 1 in a million chances of a trans person usurping her place. So interesting, all these Republican defenders who could not have given the slightest fuck about female sports until it became an issue they could weaponise...

But anyway, if the 2028 olympics are your priority right now, I'd argue you're missing the forest for the trees. I'd make an argument that at this moment the odds they'll even happen are under 50%. Which countries exactly will want to send their teams to the country that's fucked them over? Frankly, I think Trump's economic histrionics are going to deprive a lot more female athletes of opportunity than the handful of trans women in the world.

But this is the sentence that completely confounded me. I still don't understand what it means?

The countries that deny that are going to be at the receiving end of the current economic dominance.

I’m not sure why there’s a need to strong arm trans issues into every conversation, what’s going on in the US goes so far beyond the issue of men and women in sports that I can’t even articulate it.

For a minute there I thought I was on the Fencing thread in FWR (which I've been reliably informed today is not concerned with feminism or women's rights🤯).

I'm glad I re-read the last page before I posted the response I typed.🙈😆

Start your own thread. You dropped this into a discussion about tariffs and it's clearly nothing to do with them. Trump's tariff criteria is trade imbalances not wokery.

The Labour Party have an unassailable majority in the Commons. They could defenestrate Starmer tomorrow, not that it's likely. But my point was more about UK political culture generally, ie, that the UK public haven't yet learned that having an utter idiot as PM results in bad things happening: Starmer's lack of popularity is proof of this. So Starmer has 4 years - but he only has 4 years to fix things to the satisfaction of the public or the next PM could be an iconoclast / fraudster / extremist / idiot who will govern the UK out of being a first world country. It's happened to others.

About the lack of economic sense: I suspect that Trump is actually attempting a massive shakedown on every other country in the world and will scrap a tariff on any country that negotiates. Ie, it's a simple and very cynical bargaining strategy. He says he's in negotiations with various countries already.

I think he expects to negotiate improved terms of trade with every country in the world and will drop each tariff as agreements are reached and in some months time all or most will be gone. In the meantime he's happy to play chicken with economic rules.

The EU are absolute bastards regarding trade negotiations so that's the one to watch. Also China, who really need US trade.

@TomPinch - so what you’re saying is that he’s putting the principles of his much-derided book: “The Art of the Deal” into practice? (I know nothing either of economics or that book.)

@Jaichangecentfoisdenom Yes, I honestly believe it's exactly that. Which means the best response by any government is to find his pain points and press them remorselessly.

That's easy.
Ban golf, dig up all the courses and melt down all the bats.

Yes! E.g. the UK could go strategically cold on a state visit / meet with the King as Trump does genuinely value that sort of thing.

Or fast-track a sewage treatment plant next to Turnberry golf course. In this post-Brexit world, the UK really does need to stop looking for a BFF and engage in some shithousery. Do it, Kier!

I can't believe it's only been 73 days!! 😔

Maybe that's his long term goal? I'd like to think they wouldn't accept it but they've managed to rationalise his batshit behaviour so far..

Today is Hands Off Protest Day.
Many protests have been organised so it will be interesting to see which and where they gain the most traction. I guess Red states will be the important ones - if the crowds are large and bi-partisan. At one level, I hope for fire and fury, but I also fear that will only allow Trump to declare a national emergency and bring in the National Guard. (Assuming he's paying attention and not counting his squillions from his Saudi golfing mates)

eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/04/04/anti-trump-protests-nationwide-saturday/82708910007/

In what sense are the EU 'absolute bastards regarding trade negotiations'?

Personally, I don't believe it will happen here i.e populist PM with a penchant for autocracy as it is a different set of circumstances over the last 20 years that has led to a reality TV star being the president. Much of the politics in the US has become about culture wars, people are far more politically alienated. Equally, it is playing out over there and I don't think many in the UK (who would actually bother to vote) are looking at Trump politics as something to emulate.

They tried them in the UK with Truss, that went better for the lettuce.

Fortunately in the UK we can remove shit PMs.

In what sense are the EU 'absolute bastards regarding trade negotiations'?

One of the features of the EU is that it's size and construction means there is quite a separation between it's political mechanisms and it's operational mechanisms. (This may be what Brexiteers were trying to say when they complained about "unelected bureaucrats, it was hard to tell over all the shouting).

This means that trade negotiations - an operational matter - are carried out almost regardless of the political leadership. Which means that it's inevitable they will pursue the same goals no matter who is in power. Unlike (say) the US which can - and does - change its mind every 4 years.

The upshot is to the 4-year fly by nighters, the EU looks "badass" for not changing it's mind.

It's definitely a positive aspect of EU life.

Us Brits shouldn't be too appalled by it. It's exactly how our civil service works. You have to wonder where the EEC got it's crazy ideas ?