Are We Feeling Liberated Yet? - Trump thread #141

[Spandauer]

King Donald has bigly new tariffs, First Lady Elmo turns out to be ballot box poison and 'Pick Me Girl' Vance is a meanie to the EU.

(But at least the penguins on the Heard and McDonald Islands are wearing suits)

Previous thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5297058-trumpmusk-the-doge-and-pony-show-continues-trump-thread-140

I don't understand why 🍊 hasn't "taken" the Falkland Islands.
I mean, they have penguins...🐧

And yet, they always somehow manage to cast it as a victory for the great negotiator and his gormless supporters lap it up.

Not cars though.
Especially those pesky combustible teslas 🔥🚗

He forgot to exempt the tiny screws.

Maybe now some people are beginning to twig what being in a customs union and single market meant for the UK ....

It's almost axiomatic that Americans abroad are much much less likely to be MAGA maniacs.

@SerendipityJane
I regularly explained all over the Brexit threads the process of Customs Clearance.
How VAT deferment works, how groupage works, how demurrage works.
What turnout and tally means etc etc etc

But people only hear what they want to hear.

I had to laugh when David From pointed out, in the Atlantic, that those much discussed tiny screws are... drumroll... made in China.

Distressingly, my larger conclusion, is that many people are stupid.

*No, I'm not Hilary Clinton.

I guess, Leon's getting desperate to drive traffic to his miserable cesspit of a website

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5245029-social-security-administration-social-platform-x-releases/

Joking aside, this is an absolute disgrace

Words fail me. What on earth is going to happen. This is so so awful, depressing, and honestly no different to what happened back in Germany 30/40s.

Where are these checks and balances that Americans are forever citing?

Where are these checks and balances that Americans are forever citing?

There are very few - vanishingly few - Americans who actually understand their origin story.

Basically the whole nation was founded by a bunch of really intolerant religious nutters who evolved into a bunch of really intolerant tax dodgers. As luck would have it they absorbed enough of the English upper class to know exactly how to get the poor to do what they wanted and using the very Trumpesque slogan "No taxation without representation" managed to hoodwink the entire English speaking continent into (re)creating the social order that had been in danger of dying out as it crossed the Atlantic.

I've taken to getting ChatGPT to pre-critique my postings of late, to save the bots on here the trouble. It's currently light years ahead of Donald J. Trump for eloquence, and starting to sound like Obama.

It sounds like you're expressing a critical view of the foundations of American history, and there’s a lot of nuance to explore in that perspective. It’s true that the early American colonies were populated by a mix of religious groups, some of whom were fleeing persecution but also carrying with them their own intolerances, such as the Puritans, who imposed strict religious conformity. This contradiction of seeking religious freedom while being intolerant of other beliefs is an interesting part of early American history.

The "No taxation without representation" slogan, famously tied to the American Revolution, did indeed serve to unite a diverse group of colonists—many of whom were dissatisfied with British rule but, as you suggest, also had their own agendas. While the revolution was framed as a fight for liberty and self-governance, it did, in many ways, preserve the social and economic systems that benefited the wealthy landowners and elites of the new country. This is often cited as part of the reason why so many of the foundational structures, like slavery and class hierarchies, were retained post-independence.

The evolution of the United States as a nation has a lot of contradictory elements, and it is interesting to look at how the original ideals of freedom and equality were often in tension with the practices of those who held power. Many of the “founding fathers,” for example, had deep ties to wealth and power structures, yet they managed to craft a narrative that justified their dominance while appealing to the masses through ideas like liberty and the rights of the
individual.

Do you think this tension still shapes the country today?

I wouldn’t count on it.

😂

Lutnick is going to be devastated.

This took my breath away and yet did not surprise me all at the same time.

In my prior job I had access to some of these databases and this post is absolutely accurate about the data stored there. DOGE now has access to everything except perhaps one's bra size. And maybe even that.

I hate to invoke Godwin's Law, but can you imagine how much worse this is than back in 1939? Hitler did terrible, horrible things and he didn't have 1/10th the information on 'his' citizens as DOGE now has on us. Hitler relied on neighbour turning in neighbour. Now, the US Govt doesn't need that. They have all the info at the literal tips of their fingers.

It’s truly chilling.

Are the bookies giving odds yet on the midterms not being held?

Trump used the International Emergency Economic Powers Act of 1977 to impose tariffs. Two days ago, smart phones, memory cards, solar cells, semiconductors etc were a dangerous threat. Yesterday, they were suddenly no longer a threat and that climbdown was made retroactive to 5th April.

Can't wait for the WH spin from Karoline Leavitt. 🙄

I want to thank all the posters who have shared SM accounts and articles on this thread. And the OP too. They have helped me to expand my knowledge bigly.

Apologies if you already know this, but I would never had considered China and sense of humour in the same sentence. This changed today when I discovered that they had chosen a 34% reciprocal tariff to represent one percent for each of DJT's 2024 felony convictions. 😆#chinatrolls

I think that Alt National Parks Service post is worth repeating on this thread in full:

DOGE has quietly transformed into something far more sinister — not a system for streamlining government, but one designed for surveillance, control, and targeting. And no one’s talking about it. So we’re going to spill the tea.
From the beginning, DOGE’s true mission has been about data — collecting massive amounts of personal information on Americans. Now, that data is being turned against immigrants.
At the center of this effort is Antonio Gracias, a longtime Elon Musk confidante. Though he holds no official government position, Gracias is leading a specialized DOGE task force focused on immigration. His team has embedded engineers and staff across nearly every corner of the Department of Homeland Security (DHS).
But it doesn’t stop there.
DOGE operatives have also been quietly placed inside other federal agencies like the Social Security Administration and the Department of Health and Human Services — agencies that store some of the most sensitive personal data in the country, including on immigrants.
DOGE engineers now working inside DHS include Kyle Schutt, Edward Coristine (nicknamed “Big Balls”), Mark Elez, Aram Moghaddassi, and Payton Rehling. They’ve built the technical foundation behind a sweeping plan to revoke, cancel visas, and rewire the entire asylum process.
One of the most disturbing aspects of this plan? Flagging immigrants as “deceased” in the Social Security system — effectively canceling their SSNs. Without a valid Social Security number, it becomes nearly impossible to open a bank account, get a job, or even apply for a loan. The goal? Make life so difficult that people “self-deport.”
And if you’re marked as dead in the Social Security system, good luck fixing it. There’s virtually no path back — it’s a bureaucratic black hole.
You might ask: why do immigrants, asylum seekers, or refugees even have Social Security numbers? Because anyone authorized to work in the U.S. legally is issued one. It’s not just for citizens. It’s essential for participating in modern life — jobs, housing, banking, taxes. Without it, you’re locked out of society.
Last week, this plan was finalized in a high-level White House meeting that included DHS Secretary Kristi Noem, Antonio Gracias, senior DOGE operatives, and top administration officials.
In recent weeks, the administration has moved aggressively to strip legal protections from hundreds of thousands of immigrants and international students — many of whom have been living and working in the U.S. legally for years.
At the core of this crackdown? Data.
DOGE has access to your SSN, your income, your political donations — and more. What was once sold as a tool for “government efficiency” has become something else entirely: a weaponized surveillance machine.
And if you think this ends with immigrants, think again.
Antonio Gracias has already used DOGE’s access to Social Security and state-level data to push voter fraud narratives during past elections. The system is in place. The precedent has been set. And average Americans should be concerned.
www.facebook.com/AltUSNationalParkService/posts/pfbid0DkEwjhmY5Fz9uwnAez6y6q2J4L97ocfjyEGqBK42DWy1ENk2VGSFcD7iWVw1rr6il

I have to say, this is exactly what I was expecting to see. Immediately DOGE got into those computers I was sure it was all about the data: collection of the entire country's most personal data, then surveillance and manipulation through it and of it.

I hadn't forseen the specific of "declare people dead, that'll stuff them", but I agree strongly that this will not end with immigrants.

I predict it will be used very widely as a way to punish dissent.

It may be worth mentioning that DOGE also has access to the passport numbers and identifying data of anyone who has traveled here. I assume they purge the system, but who knows how often.

And if you've ever worked here or obtained a Social Security number for other purposes (banking, school), they have that number and all associated data. And SS data is never purged. Prior to 2004, anyone here legally could get an SSN and it was a 'controlling number' for numerous purposes, govt and non-govt. Starting in 2004 issuance was much more restrictive.

And if you've worked in the US and paid into SS, then SS may have access to your foreign earnings under certain circumstances if you have also worked in Australia, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovak Republic, Slovenia, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, United Kingdom, and Uruguay. Normally the agency doesn't use that access unless you file for benefits using combined US and foreign earnings.

Chances are this is nothing to worry about for people not living or contemplating living here. But it just shows how 'long' their fingers are for reaching into, not just our lives, but possibly the lives of people who don't even live here.

It may be worth mentioning that DOGE also has access to the passport numbers and identifying data of anyone who has traveled here. I assume they purge the system, but who knows how often.

The UK Government never purges its entry and exit data sets.
I very much doubt that the USA does either.

...only if convenient for them. i.e. windrush...

@bloodredfeaturewall
That was all in the old manual records.

When I got my UK citizenship I got a rather spectacular insight into how the immigration records work.
I've posted it in the past
basically NOTHING was centrally recorded before computerised gates
EVERYTHING is centrally recorded since them