Fellow insomniacs.......I need a conflab.

[Tolkienista]

I'm 66 and I've had sleeping issues for decades.
I just live with it.
Generally I'm ok getting to sleep, it's the waking at 3 am that I have issues with.

Anyway, last night I went to bed with a million things on my mind and worries, i didn't get to sleep until probably close to 2am. Just couldn't switch off.
Then I awoke around 5.15am and haven't been able to get back to sleep.

I've just accepted it and I'm not going to beat myself up about it.
I'm not in pain, I'm warm and cosy in bed and I'll just put it behind me and move on.

So, my fellow Mumsnet insomniacs how do you deal with all the articles that tell me my health is going to be affected by my poor sleep patterns.
I'm in good health. Haven't been to a doctor for years. I eat well, exercise regularly, I'm fit/active and a size 10.
But insomnia is an issue & I do have concerns about it long term.
However, my mum is 96 and she has exactly the same experience as me with sleep and like me has had it for decades.

Please share your experience.
I'm all ears!

I’m mid fifties. It’s killing me. Like you, I drop off with no problem. And then awake a few hours later. Drop off again a few hours later. Then awake again. And so it continues. Sleep is, ironically, exhausting.

I look dreadful. And evenings are a write off.

Things I have tried:
Good sleep hygiene
White/brown noise
Meditation

These are all very comforting and I will keep using them, but they don’t improve my insomnia.

I’ve tried medication, which whilst it let me sleep, made me feel worse in the morning than no sleep. On HRT, which is fab, but does nothing for my sleep.

I’m going to try magnesium next. Mildly hopeful.

I agree that the general consensus of medical opinion that not sleeping is incredibly bad for you, does absolutely nothing to improve the situation!

Mid-50s and have the same pattern - drop off easily but wake about 3 and that’s it. Sometimes earlier but 3 is the usual hour!

Magnesium helps me. I take Nutri Advanced Magnesium Glycinate as this one was recommended to me by a menopause specialist.

Old fashioned things like writing down everything that’s on my busy brain when I wake up can also sometimes break the spell. I tell myself it’s gone out of my mind somewhere else and that can trick me back to sleep.

I’m late 40s and have had sleep problems for a number of years now. Probably peri-menopause related but looking back I’ve had periods of insomnia since my 20s.

My patterns are very similar to you both - fall asleep easily but wake up at 2, 3 or 4 and then awake for an hour or two before back to sleep.

I take vitamin d and magnesium daily, switched my oestrogel application to morning as apparently oestrogen can be an activator, take the progesterone pill at night and have upped the evening yoga recently.

At the moment I’d say that sleep isn’t too bad - fewer nights with mid-sleep waking but generally lucky to get 6 hours as am waking at 5.30 or 6.

Having listed all the supplements etc I do think most of it is psychological - something in my brain wants to wake to worry and fret. It’s hard to describe but it’s almost like something in there takes note of all the things I’m stressed about and sets an alarm clock for the early hours of the morning to think about them some more. Even though I’ve been doing an awful lot of thinking on them throughout the day.

And just to keep it fun I like to worry about my increased dementia risk related to the insomnia 😂.

Not so much insomnia but my sleep pattern is terrible - late 40s really busy stressful job and it is also killing me, I can barely focus and feel so drained. I don't lie awake for hours but I sleep very lightly, go to the loo probably 4 times a night and wake at least 8 times. I have a very busy brain that really struggles to STFU! Also on HRT which hasnt helped with the sleep, will try a magnesium supplement I think.

Four really interesting posts @Madamswearsalot @Screwyoutwat @SoScarletItWas @SpiralSister
You have laid your experiences on the line and I can really relate to what you're all going through or should I say what we're going through myself included.

I'm really interested in magnesium as a supplement, I'm going to look more into that.
I'm not on HRT, I literally sailed through the menopause, no issues at all.

Last night was a bad night but interestingly I fell asleep after I started this thread at 7am and woke at 8.30 am.

I found out about them on here ages ago: Kirkland sleep aid. They’re a natural antihistamine. They work. Take them an hour or so before you want to sleep, and sleep you will. Half a tablet is enough.

For now and then when you want to try to reset your sleep patterns or are desperate to get some proper rest.

The one thing which bugs me is
I'm in control of my nutrition, my drinking, my exercise and day to day well being......while I'm awake.

However, when I go to bed and fall asleep my insomnia is in control of me.
I don't decide to wake up in the night , my body is waking me up.
That's where the problem lies, not being able to get back to sleep quickly.

Thank you for your post ......never heard of that sleep aid, something else for me to research and try.

Magnesium helps me a lot!
If I don’t take it I don’t sleep.

Mid 60’s. Sleeping issues for years. Getting to sleep not a problem, staying asleep a real problem. I usually wake about 2.30. I find something boring to listen to on Sounds in tbe hope I’ll drop off. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t.

if I don’t drop off I know I’ll be awake for a long while. Then it’s downstairs for a cup of hot chocolate and maybe a slice of toast. That sometimes does the trick.

Last Wednesday I woke at 2am and was awake all night. Got up at 7 am as I was sick of laying there.

I don’t take any tablets or supplements. I just get on with it. My 89year old mum is just the same and has been for years. I feel jealous of my DH who gets into bed and sleeps soundly until the next morning. 😬😬😬

I read about them in here too and they work like a dream for me also . Don’t make me feel groggy the next day either .

I'm a lifelong insomniac.

I was on sleeping tablets every night for almost my entire adult working life. Then I got sick and couldn't work. So now I sleep without them from 2 or 3am until mid morning, which seems to be my natural sleeping pattern. I think too many people are forced into early bird patterns when they're actually a night owl. I'm naturally very alert at night. That's just how I am.

In terms of supplements, magnesium helps a lot. Tryptophan helps too. You can order melatonin online from France from Sanareva.

I'm sure you know this, but keep the lights low all evening, moving into complete darkness before you sleep.

Another thing that really helps is white noise. Whatever you prefer to listen to - maybe rain or the sound of a car. This app has loads of sounds on it or YouTube is good for them too. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=it.mm.android.ambience

As well as everyone else’s advice, I look at it like this - it’s right, it is bad for your health. So are lots of things. Too much salt, sugar, too much of this, not enough of that, alcohol and coffee are bad, but also good, too much exercise, too little, the wrong sort etc. You could drop dead this afternoon. Anyone could. As long as you take basic precautions eg don’t drive if you’re really tired, then get up, get a cup of tea, have a midday afternoon nap, whatever you like.

Have a mental list of noisy things to do in the day eg hoover, and if you want to get up in the night and do the ironing (what’s that?!) then do so. Don’t see it as ‘day = awake, night = sleep’ but more ‘I sleep when I’m tired’. There’s no real reason why you can’t bake a cake at 2am or 5am.

Great advice, thanks for your post.
No matter how badly I've slept, I never really feel tired in the day with the exception of my post lunch nap which happens if I'm not up and about doing something.
Maybe I don't need that much sleep.

Either way it's really good to share experiences and I appreciate your time in sharing yours.

@UnchainMeSister thanks for your post and invaluable information with a link too, that is really helpful.
I'm so pleased that people posting are being very open and sharing experiences too, especially tried and tested methods.
I'm so grateful for your post.

I swear by magnesium oxide 500mg. Lindens brand on amazon.

I used to sleep bad Feb to April but it is good all year now. I wd wake up 2 am 4am and not get back. It really is a game changer for me.

Never slept well. Tried everything. Have trouble getting to sleep, staying asleep and waking early. I try to accept it but it makes holidays a pain and I do worry about dementia risk.

I never had insomnia until I hit peri menopause.

The only thing which helps is a combo of HRT and amitriptyline, before that I simply couldn't function

Oh, you're very welcome. We insomniacs have to stick together.

I've had advice from people who can sleep easily before - like try lying in bed with your eyes closed. Surprisingly, I had already thought of that one! 😁

@ThisIsMyYearToFindMyself has a good idea with the philosophy of "I'll sleep when I'm tired." I know it's awkward when you have important things to do the next day, but it's much better to listen to your body.

I’ve been a 3am waker since menopause, 10 years ago. I’m on HRT. It doesn’t happen all the time, probably twice a week, more if I’m stressed.

I googled it a while back and (don’t shout at me for being unscientific) it said something about the liver putting out glucose after 5 hours sleep, lack of oestrogen affecting that, and adrenalin circulating. That seems right to me, I wake up with a bit of a racing heart, hot, a bit thirsty.

Things I’ve found helpful when waking - get up have a wee, it cools me down a bit to get out of bed. Eat a few nuts to stabilise blood sugar, drink a little water. Sometimes I have a nurofen - I don’t know if it helps but it coincidentally did once, so now if desperate I try it (I know it’s not good on an empty stomach). I might read for a bit, if I am having a lot of ruminative / anxious thoughts.

Before bed I have magnesium, and low lights and no screens an hour before sleeping. I also make sure I have enough potassium as I read long ago that can contribute to a bit of a racing heart.

I definitely don’t get up, start doing ironing etc, I just wouldn’t get back to sleep. And I work, so sleeping as-and-when isn’t possible.

Op if you don’t feel like you’re struggling physically or mentally during the day then I wouldn’t stress about it! Some people just do ok on less sleep, I’ve read so many articles and listened to so many podcasts, some bodies do fine on 5 hours a night and we have natural sleep cycles and rhythms where we wake up every 90 mins or so I think it is? We often don’t remember as we go straight back to sleep. Sometimes we don’t because something’s disturbed us or the brain starts to kick in and think oh no I’m awake! But I definitely found it easier to get back to sleep after I realised it’s totally normal to come out of a sleep cycle, before that I used to stress about waking up and of course then find it hard to drop back off.

I know the media is always talking about getting 8 hours, but I always wonder how people do actually manage that during the week with kids, work, busy lives etc. Do many people really manage to be in bed by 10 or 11 so they’ve had their 8 hours before getting up for work / school at 6/7am? Plus that’s before anyone with young children is up in the night with them or woken up at 5!

I remember when the war in Ukraine started and seeing a family interviewed on TV about coming to live with a host family in the UK. They talked about how quiet it was at night and being able to sleep without the awful noise of shelling and war constantly around and above them. This may sound silly but it really made me think about the warm comfortable bed, and non eventful type of street I live in being such a luxury for sleep. It gave me a totally new perspective on my sleep quantity and quality and how preoccupied I was about it at the time. I worry far less these days about it.

I used to stress a lot about my sleep pattern - I fall asleep quickly but then wake in the night, often for quite a long period. Lying in bed desperately worrying about whether I'd get back to sleep was stressful and I'd get anxious before bedtime. I tried an antihistamine that was recommended to make me sleepy but the after effects were so horrible I abandoned that idea.

I changed my thinking about it and I am more relaxed about it now - I often get up, have a cup of tea and read for a bit until I feel sleepy again. I've read a couple of articles that said that the amount of sleep we need varies from person to person and it changes as we get older so I don't worry about my 5 or 6 hours. Also I've read it's thought that it's quite natural for humans to be awake for periods during the night - anthropologists have observed this among different groups of people. The 8 hours a night idea is apparently something that came about during the industrial revolution. I've often thought that during history humans were probably more in tune with the seasons regarding sleep - less sleep in the summer when daylight lasts longer and there was more outside work to be done. More sleep in the winter when it stays dark for longer. No "fixed" sleep period - most people didn't have clocks to know how long they slept. So, I ignore the 8 hours a night stuff and see my early hours waking as a nice quiet relaxed time.

I'm always curious about where these ideas about a certain amount of sleep, amount of water we should drink, number of steps we should take etc, actually come from. I think a lot of them are repeated ad infinitum without any real scientific evidence base.

More great contributions in the last hour, I'm so glad I posted my thoughts this morning.
This is a great community and everyone who has shared their thoughts has really added to my understanding and acceptance of a condition that is probably far more prevalent in our society than anyone realises.

I'm going to read back through all the posts and make a note of everything moving forward.

I'm a GP and there's a new medication on the market called daridorexant that's licenced for insomnia. It seems to be working well for some of my patients who have chronic insomnia. I can't say all areas will prescribe it as it's quite expensive but our ICB so far are supporting us to prescribe it. Might be worth looking into.

Ooh, that sounds interesting.
I must admit I'm terrified of taking something that I might become dependent on to get me through the whole night.
Thankfully i'm not on any medication at all, but I'm going to look into this.

Just out of interest, as you're a GP.
How prevalent is insomnia in your day to day appointments?
Are women affected more than men?
Finally, do you find in women that insomnia is more common post menopause ?