What's happening to the young men?

[MrsSchrute]

This post is prompted by an article in the Guardian about the murderer of Amie Grey, who has been sentenced to 39 years.
His psychiatric report said he had: 'repressed socially induced trauma resulting from a combination of real and perceived rejections and social humiliations resulting in him feeling alien from general society, a social misfit, somebody who had hardly any friends at school, had never had a girlfriend and seemed to be avoided”

He came from a loving family and had never been in trouble before.

Now, obviously he should absolutely be in prison for what he did, and there is no excuse.

Why is it that more and more young men seem to be so seperate from society? Has it always been the case? Is it the easy access that the internet allows to extremist material that's the issue? What can we, or society, do to stop this??

Schoolgirls should not be dating men. Have you raised this safeguarding concern with the school?

When you're done with your crystal ball that lets you see whether your new partner will hoover and unload the dishwasher after you've borne your first child, can I borrow it to check next week's lottery numbers?

Women have to disguise their voices to game, because they get piled on with sexist abuse if they allow their female voices to be heard over voice chat.

I signed up to Tinder, saw the quality of men with their incomplete profiles, and immediately deleted my account. I own my home, work full-time, so in the top 80% of women even despite my disabilities, and I bailed out of Tinder within minutes.

I think that generally women would rather be single than lower their dating standards because the stakes are so much higher for us.

You missed out. There are loads of men with photos where they've cut out their partners, are holding big fish and lying in bed with come hither eyes.

only a 30 minute lunchbreak in secondary school from aged 11

We had an hour and five minutes for lunch at my school. How are you meant to run music clubs, sports clubs, boardgame clubs, etc during lunch break when there's only 30 minutes? These clubs foster cooperation and social interaction. And don't say "run them after school" because that excludes the kids who use school buses.

Don't forget the topless bathroom mirror selfie!

I was bullied constantly through school

So were many women, yet men do most of the murdering. Stop making excuses for shitty male behaviour.

I dream of those.

What does Incel actually stand for? I keep thinking it’s a terrorist group.

How is this different from "got the job, got the car, got the house, got the wife"? The term "trophy wife" exists for a reason. At least solo mothers will only be cleaning up after their kids and not a man as well.

Solo mothers don't need IVF. They just need a sperm sample and intrauterine insemination.

Involuntary celibate. Their core focus is getting sex under any circumstances.

ETA extreme misogyny is considered terrorism and incels have killed people.

You're not wrong.

It's better than the permissive parenting that's helped wreck society.

Somehow the incels believe they are treated badly by women who are gatekeepers for sex. Some believe the Govt should allocate women for them. Also that women are seeking wealth from men and so only rich or well off men get the sex denied to the incels. I worked with someone like that. Actually believed women were out to take his house and money. He had a few mental issues sadly.

They're sick individuals. I remember reading once about how they wanted women to sign a contract so that they consent to sex at any time while on their property.

I also read advice by an incel on how to coerce women into sex. One method was to just keep pushing her boundaries until she gave in. He explained in detail how to do that. It's a rapist's movement.

If it’s any consolation I asked my young teen if he knew who Andrew Tate was and he said yes and that he looks like an egg, so perhaps the hold this shit seems to be having on young men is lessening.

I think the only thing women can do is to bring up their sons to see women as humans - not just the support running around cooking and washing and smiling indulgently at poor behaviour and saying ‘boys will be boys’. Ideally sons have a father who also treats women as humans so it’s a double whammy of reinforcement but adult men are what they are unfortunately in some cases. Treating women as full humans isn’t anything to do with sex, culture, education or class imho - you either do it or you don’t.

Ah ‘permissive parenting’. That stick to berate parents who parent in a different way to previous generations and blame all the ills of society on 😜

I remember a dinner time conversation between DD and older DS, where DD complained that none of the "popular " boys at school were interested in having girlfriends. Only the less popular boys.

I asked what she meant by the "popular boys" and she explained that generally they were rugby A team and above average academically, confident, physically fit and at least average looking.

My DS explained that the reason they weren't interested was that they were too busy playing rugby, going to the gym, seeing their friends and studying to have anytime for a girlfriend.

Sadly it seems to be human nature to always want what we can't have or is difficult to have.

Our sons are now 18, 22 and 25. We have had regular conversations over the years about this kind of stuff. They don't have any sisters but do have a female cousin. We talk a lot about their ideas around being a man, women and what it all means to them. We are a very stable 2 parent family and would hope we have raised them the same. They have some views which are similar to each other and others which are different. Some views we are proud of and some we have had to challenge. All of them have described a huge favouritism towards girls in both primary and secondary school. They said the worst was late primary. No male staff or anyone who seemed to understand boys interests.
Eldest went to uni in a very diverse city, lots of different types of people and friends of both sex. He seems to have very balanced views, him and his girlfriend seem to have very equal and healthy relationship. Second went to a uni full of middle class rich kids (his words not mine). He predominantly had male friends and pursued typically masculine hobbies. He is much more of an 'alpha male' .He feels he has to protect his girlfriend, pay for everything etc. Third son is still at home and has some questionable views sometimes. He can't understand why girls post semi naked photos on social media and thinks girls should have more srlf respect and not display themselves. He is very open that he doesn't understand what being a man is but strives to look good, be tall and strong to attract girls. It all seems to be about looks and attractiveness to him.
Their father as a role model I would say is mixed. He's not perfect and isn't as self reflective as he could be. He was raised in a very patriarchal family so in his eyes he's better than his own father so that's great.
It's such a tough topic to unpick, so many layers.

I honestly think it’s because women don’t need men any more. In the past men really didn’t need to try that hard and they would get a good job, respect, a wife, a house a family etc. Today, a lot of young women are very independent and will only date a man if he adds something to their lives, they expect a lot more from men than women of the past and tolerate a lot less. It’s not so easy to get a good job and a wife any more. People don’t automatically think you’re great because you’re a man doing the bare minimum.

A lot of men can’t handle this, they don’t want to improve themselves to be desirable to women so instead they blame women. They saw what their fathers and uncles and grandfathers had and what little effort a lot of them put in to get it and they expect the same, but it’s a different world, just being a man isn’t enough any more. Women have upped their game and men haven’t, so men feel like they’re being persecuted.

Instead of doing what women have done and competing, they give up and become resentful, bitter and angry blaming women and society as it’s easier than improving themselves.

Good point, but young men need teaching what that is. What do they have to improve? If they can't look to their fathers and grandfather's who do they look to? Because without that piece of the puzzle they look online for role models and see a vision of perfection which is out of reach and just reinforces the very model of thinking we are trying to avoid. It all comes back to positive role models for both boys and girls.