What's happening to the young men?

[MrsSchrute]

This post is prompted by an article in the Guardian about the murderer of Amie Grey, who has been sentenced to 39 years.
His psychiatric report said he had: 'repressed socially induced trauma resulting from a combination of real and perceived rejections and social humiliations resulting in him feeling alien from general society, a social misfit, somebody who had hardly any friends at school, had never had a girlfriend and seemed to be avoided”

He came from a loving family and had never been in trouble before.

Now, obviously he should absolutely be in prison for what he did, and there is no excuse.

Why is it that more and more young men seem to be so seperate from society? Has it always been the case? Is it the easy access that the internet allows to extremist material that's the issue? What can we, or society, do to stop this??

I know we have a youth minister but it is a role where it encompasses other areas too. I believe we should have specifically a youth minister only.

Of course they don't need to be kind, nobody does, what they shouldn't be doing is behaving like total arses. Bullying and belittling others seems to be a game many girls get a lot of fun from. Unfortunately they get into groups and feed of each others bad behaviour. While saying how bad the young lads behaviour is we ignore that the girls are now as bad. Female violence though is largely ignored.

How, when even women won’t let that bugger go?

Not all girls are bullies just as not all boys are violent.

What evidence do you have that female violence is ignored? Crime statistics show that men are overwhelmingly, responsible for violent crime.

Show me the statistics that demonstrate the extent to which young girls are mutilating, abusing and killing ANYONE and I’ll believe you. But they do not exist because it’s NOT TRUE. So stop being ridiculous.

Remember the quote from Atwood: “Men are afraid women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.”

Stop minimising dangerous and destructive behaviour of men and boys by trying to make out that girls are just as bad. It is simply not true.

We were sitting eating in a restaurant near a nightclub. A group of young women came out fighting, cussing, swearing etc. Proper violence, throwing bottles, trying to stab each other with their high heels. Their boyfriends tried to break it up, the police arrived, arrested the young men (including a passer-by) and sent the girls on their way. No doubt recorded as a group of violent young men when actually it was their girlfriends. There have been increasing reports of bad behaviour, even of girls peeing on homeless people trying to sleep (what fun). One did get arrested for it and was told to behave but its apparently quite common.

Your evidence is an anecdote?

Well I guess that’s us told. Your one anecdote against literally decades of research and statistics from around the world. And what’s with the “no doubt recorded as a male crime”? Where is your evidence for that? Did you read the police report? Did you speak to the police officers? Was there a trial? Did you check the local newspaper reports?

Or are you just a bog standard male violence apologist? They won’t like you anymore than they like us you know.

This.

So many men seem to abdicate responsibility for everything onto the women in their lives nowadays.

I look back at my father and his brothers and how that generation managed their lives and all those skills seem to have been lost in one or two generations.

Learning to drive, cut hedges, service cars and build bonfires. Catching and gutting pheasants and rabbits, working earlies lates and nights without complaint. Managing money, paying bills, putting aside some savings, repairing gutters, shovelling snow and painting garage doors. Ironing and repairing clothes and shoes. Painting and decorating. Repairing fences, making bird tables, cleaning chimneys and planting vegetables. Running a small local charity and arranging events. Taking us girls camping and out on picnics and making chutney, piccalilli and brawn. Making raised pies and teaching us to knit. Grafting apple trees and making rabbit hutches. Being there and cracking on with life with a balanced life view and good advice. Catching us when we fell and acting as a taxi service.

I've read my Dad's letters home to his parents from when he joined the army at 19 and was stationed in Haifa. It is clear he was totally together even at that age and had a mass of life skills.

I think a lot of it is that they don't seem to get together in person so much so a lot of life skills and negotiating what the world throws at them in real life. It all passes them by and they never attain fundamental skills of life so meltdown when shit gets real.

I agree with this. The degree of laziness I see is off the charts. No domestic labour. No taking care of the house. No parenting. No DIY. Lack of progression at work. Acting like teenagers their whole lives. They want all the benefits with none of the responsibilities.

Wanting a “traditional” woman when they can’t behave like “traditional” men.

And they wonder why women aren’t lining up.

I think National Service taught men a lot of skills. Also many people couldn’t afford to get someone in to fix things if they broke or malfunctioned. My parents were the same . My dad could fix things. Decorate, manage practical tasks. They had no help at all from family, either financially , practically or emotionally. They just got on with it . My mother couldn’t cook brut she got on with difficult situations without complaint.

Yes there are plenty of women who have no standards and behave worse than many men .

Not seen many/any women grooming/trafficking young men for sex, stabbing children, carrying out mass shootings, shooting boys for wanting an education. In the news our friend Andrew Tate. Didn't take long.

Really? How come that isn't reflected in crime statistics? How come the vast majority of violence is carried out by men?

Agree.

One fifth of all crime recorded in the UK is crime against women and girls.

That is huge.

The majority isn't reported. There's a high rate of suicide due to domestic abuse, that isn't recorded either. VAWAG is a massive problem, far bigger than many people realise.

It's a really good question OP. I was thinking the same thing the other day. I was out with the dog one evening recently and my senses were 'alerted' by a loud, aggressive sounding male who I thought was arguing with someone.

I took a small peek round about trying not to make it look obvious and found it was a teenager walking along the pavement on his own but talking into his phone. I could hear his conversation because he was really loud. What I thought was a disagreement turned out to be him just talking to a friend arranging to meet up. However he was so loud and aggressive sounding with grunting noises, not looking where he was going or even it seemed aware of anyone around him.

I felt quite stressed and intimidated (fifties) thought I don't know why. Perhaps he was on drugs, perhaps he just had no manners but it did make me think how scary being an old woman was going to be with these types roaming about.

Another day I was out middle of day with dog and someone cycled by (a young man). It was not intimidating particularly although he was going quite fast past pedestrians which had I not seen him coming could have given me a fright. As he went past the smell of week was so strong and indeed he had a white stick hanging out his mouth so presumably he was smoking weed.

This is a middle class area considered decent to live in. Mostly private houses although with increasing social houses being built as part of the new build estates.

It did make me think how I was raised as a young person. I didn't have particularly good parents but manners were drilled into us as was respect for 'elders'. Giving up your seat on the bus to an old person or pregnant lady would have just been normal.

It's not just men though. i have seen young women behaving badly too.

My take on what is going wrong and it's a whole host of things.

40 Years ago if you were not too bright there was still quite a clear path for you to follow. You went into a more manual job (brickie, labourer, factory worker) and you got married and had kids. You could afford a house even on your wage.
So even though you hadn't done well at school you could still achieve things. Porn was top shelf magazines and the odd VHS video passed around which was generally very tame by modern standards with 'normal' sex. Men were expected to 'court' a woman and then get engaged and married so there was a process of waiting and wanting before you 'got'. You had to 'fit in' or you were very frowned on by society so everyone tried to follow the rules. Being unemployed was embarrassing and shameful. Hard work was rewarded and made you proud.

For those who were brighter or academic there path was the same but better job, better house etc.

Nowadays for those kids who have not done well at school there seems to be no jobs to go into, no apprenticeships (remember the YTS of the eighties), no clear cut path to follow. They can't afford a house so they stay at home. They feel shit so they take comfort online where they can watch awful violent porn or game constantly losing touch with real life. They feast on UPF so their brain is starved of nutrients meaning their health is poor. They don't think about getting married because how can they - they can't even afford a house so they feel trapped and hopeless. This turns to rage and anger. Combined with soft parenting and lack of being taught manners they don't know how to behave in the world.

it's more compllicated than that and I am generalising I know.

It's very, very scary.

Totally agree.

Been talking to DH and he said to imagine a world where, like drinking, the age of consent for the internet was 18 and all the problems that might solve.

.

So true and so sad.

Certain parts of the internet/iPlayer supposedly are but that doesn't stop people allowing others to watch it. Just as the drinking age or sexual consent age doesn't stop people from doing either.

Men and boys are just products of the society and environments they are raised in (as we all are).
Areas where we fail them as I see it are;

Too much poverty, widening gap between the rich and the poor and lack of economic opportunities. House prices nearly 10x average income.

An education system that only values academic achievement and nothing else leaving far too many disempowered and disillusioned. (see the academic gap between boys and girls and the %of young people who leave 12 years of education without GCSEs)
And as an extension of this a sedentary lifestyle which is not appropriate for many boys.

Broken families

Social media

@Manasprey My DS who women most definitely like had a strict but watered down Asian style childhood sprinkled with some of DH English liberal style parenting. DH and I did clash a bit about this. He was Clegg to my Cameron, bad example but gives an indication. Never worried about DS liking me. Tried being cheeky at about 14, removed all his gaming stuff for two weeks. I said you ever take drugs I will throw you out and he knew I meant it.

well that’s proper shit parenting for you!

come on, do better

Are you suggesting that makes you a good parent and we all should raise boys that way?!