Why aren't "we" allowed.tomsuggest peole need to take some responsibility for their own health?

[Holidayfix]

Another one on the benefits issue.

My position is I'm surprised by these cuts and I absolutely support a benefits safety net, and where people have been unfortunately enough to have poor health dealt to them I feel it's absolutley necessary that "we" support them.

However, like it or not, a lot of what affliction people, mentally and physically, in the modern world is lifestyle related and there are very many things that many people could do to help themselves.

Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone, but why is it unacceptable to suggest that people could help themselves by doing the recommended things that support.mental and physical health?

Apparently Dr Michael Mosley once advised that if everyone (able to) walked for just 15 minutes a day, it’d make a difference to their health.

But AFAIK the best known official advice is 10,000 steps daily. Many people I dare say simply don’t have the time or inclination for 10,000 so they think it’s not worth bothering and end up doing hardly any.

Dr. M’s advice should be better known, and ‘official’ advice surely needs to be more realistic.

My experience is that people in a position to help themselves generally do. Like you did. Because you could.

There are so many posters starting threads pretending to be genuine and it’s very clear that they’re not. They’re trying all sorts of tactics, including OPs of telling us that she herself has dealt with poor mental health. It’s all just very thinly veiled ableism and benefit bashing.

Yes and as per my own post, I think many people are utterly oblivious as to how they and society in general 'disables' others.

I'd say I'm far from disabled- I'm high ability in a society that denies me the opportunity to adequately function. And it's all my own fault because I can't pretend to be normal day after day, year after year.

I agree with you op in practice but in reality not sure how it would work

Source was a consultant urologist in the trust I work in - perhaps it’s local data. It stuck in my mind because I was surprised.

OP it sounds from your stance that you're taking your own experience and using that to make a big sweeping judgement on others.

But there was nothing wrong with you because if there was, a bit of diet, exercise , etc would have had very little effect. So you don't know what it's like to be mentally ill. I do know mentally ill people and there's no way on earth diet or exercise or lifestyle adjustments would make a splash in the water for them.

When you say we aren't allowed to talk about this, what do you mea,n? We are talking about it right now, people on social media are going on about it, etc. Noone is stopping you!

This. OP really doesn’t have a clue but now seems to think she’s some sort of expert in mental health because she made hers better with eating fruit and veg and going outside and sniffing a tree or whatever.

What OP means by not being able to talk about it is that she wants to spout rubbish and not be challenged.

I think OP means people get jumped on for saying what she’s said. As is happening here, even though she favours support for those who need it

I don’t think MH was a good example to use, although TBF there are good studies showing that exercise can be an effective antidepressant.

I think the epidemic of T2 diabetics in the UK and internationally is a better example. It causes a huge amount of disability and is to a certain extent (by no means entirely) a lifestyle disease. In that sense people could in theory help themselves. But between the lack of NHS preventative care, the stress of living precariously, and all the problems around a cheap, easy diet, it is very difficult for many to do so.

I can't be arsed with these posts anymore. I'm already on the brink of another fucking nervous breakdown.
Why are you making vast assumptions about what millions of strangers do in their day to day lives to survive and get by?
Sorry but it's none of your business to sit there 'diagnosing' people.

@Holidayfix , God almighty! What are you thinking of? Don’t you know that all responsibility lies with the state people can’t possibly be expected to shoulder such onerous responsibilities for themselves! 🙄
And by the way there will be absolutely no problem paying for all this because we can just tax ‘the rich’. Sorted. 😁

Because people's situations and circumstances are different. What's doable and manageable for one person won't be for another. And that can run right back to early childhood experiences impacting on resilience etc. We have huge issues with the chronic under resourcing of all the community supports that people could utilise that prop up our NHS and other statutory services unofficially. There's no value for them from gov level down which causes waiting lists/closures/ lack of affordable service and that affects Joe Bloggs on the ground who's struggling with a myriad of challenges and things are getting to be too much.

Your thinking on this is very black and white and over simplistic and it doesn't work in real time.

@Lavender14 says it well,OP. You can’t take the people out of the system. Although there is an important kernel of truth in what you are saying (IMO) it presupposes a level of resiliency, economic comfort and medical and community support that many people lack.

The NHS and MH services in particular have a long way to go before many will be in a position to help themselves.

Nobody is preventing you from suggesting it.

Do you mean suggest it and have no opposing views expressed in return?

MN rule 56b.
Everyone on benefits deserves to receive them.
Without question.
😉😁😁.

We all know that diet and exercise are hugely influential over someone’s long-term health. So, knowing that, why do you think people don’t take personal responsibility for those things OP?

Could it be that it’s not quite that simple?

A good, nutritious and tasty diet requires the ability to know how to cook, a cupboard full of staples, herbs and spices, a working appliance that you can afford to run, and the financial security to be able to take advantage of economies of scale when buying ingredients. If you have all those things you can produce great food at 50p per head. If you don’t, you can’t. Some people have to buy small amounts of ingredients, which cost more. The herbs/spices might cost more than their entire food budget. A microwave or kettle is cheaper to run than an oven and they can’t afford to buy a slow cooker…

And that’s before we even address the time element or the ability to physically be able to prepare food, follow the cognitive steps required or even have the mental energy to bother.

Even the cheapest form of exercise requires some outlay (a decent pair of shoes/trainers for walking or running). Additional equipment costs more. Gym membership even more. Plus you need to have time to do it.

It may sound like excuses, and in some cases it is, but to get past making those excuses you have to be motivated. If you’re depressed, tired, anxious, extremely busy, looking after small children, have housework to do, etc etc - there’s always something that can be a barrier.

By the time it becomes pressing, some of the damage is already done and presents further barriers.

IMO home economics should be brought back and children given free bus passes and leisure centre memberships to encourage this to change. Much easier if these patterns are set young and role modelled through each generation.

And I say this as someone who routinely gets up at 4.30am to run 5-10k and who avoids UPFs. Just because I donor, doesn’t mean I can’t see the barriers facing others.

the thing is, it’s a real slippery slope. If you push this narrative are you then going to say well your arthritis is the result of a poor lifestyle so we’re not going to offer you that knee op? Where do you stop?

Everybody knows the basics, everyone, almost, can research online looking at many certified websites for different conditions and numerous support groups for themselves or their family, kids, whomever.

The NHS might be able to medicate some symptoms but it’s never going to have the resources, just in manpower to give every patient bespoke therapy for as long as needed, with mental and physical health problems. It’s just not possible at least for the foreseeable future.

Every one knows the longer you leave issues the more complicated and untreatable they become.

Every one knows if you can’t get your young adult out of the house they are going to fall behind their peers making life harder and harder to face as time goes on . People know society will never be adapted for some neurodiverse people, because most people aren’t neurodiverse.

So people know and do what they can. There is only so much financial support that can go round until there is none at all, people know this.

And many people do help themselves, that is the only option, they do follow healthcare advise and take medication and gradually improve.

If your conditions are lifestyle there is only so much the NHS can do. They can say buy an apple instead of a mars bar but they can’t actually make you do it.

People know all this OP.

Make healthier choices cheaper - that would help.

Without question? Have you seen the form for applying for PIP? I helped a relative fill it in and can confirm people are very much questioned.

The issue is that random people who don’t have the full story on someone else’s health feel like they have a right to question the person in receipt of the benefit.

@ListenToTheRiver , that is absolutely hilarious! If someone says something that doesn’t fit your narrative they are lying. 😂

Nope. It’s the language used, the way they structure their posts and in some cases you can link the usernames.

Because when you are seriously unwell with your mental health, it's not as fucking simple as "just get a bit of fresh air" etc self help type stuff. Even if that mental health is depression or anxiety, leaving the house can seem totally overwhelming.

Anyone who is depressed knows they should be getting fresh air and eating more healthily. They're not just not bothering to act on that cos they can't be arsed, their illness is making it really difficult for them.

Great for you that you managed to. Let's not presume everyone can though. There is enough stigma around mental health without encouraging everyone to think it's easy to sort your mental health out if you could just be arsed to eat an apple and go for a run.

Your one of those, you believe in the safety net but only for the 'right' people. Faux support over thinly vailed contempt, delightful. Maybe we should bring back the work houses, make sure only the truly deserving poor get support and while we're at it no NHS access for anyone who's behaviour could have in any way contributed to their poor health, like smokers or obese people or people with eating disorders or anyone doing drugs or alcoholics, no welfare for gamblers after all its self inflcited poverty and we must make sure all mentally ill people are truly trying hard enough to deserve their benefits.

OP is going on about lifestyle choices and the way she keeps refering to lifestyle choice shows she actually isnt favouring support, she's getting jumped on because she is pretending to favour support while actually having a go at people who are vulnerable and struggling. Going on about lifestyle choices shows her privilege and the fact she has no fucking idea what shes talking about. A large portion of the population will cost the economy money because of their choices, that doesn't mean we should sit in judgement and decide who deserves welfare or life saving operations or medication and who doesn't. Of course there are people on benefits who misuse the system, there are also rich people who misuse the tax system to the budgets detriment but we aren't all discussing them. MN is once again bashing those benefits from every angle, full out people on benefits are lazy, fake support going on about how really its their own fault and then the people who are apparently getting ridiculous amounts or money and just coincidentally posting about that in the midst of the slighly more obvious benefit bashing threads. I'm sure you've all managed to make some people who are vulnerable and struggling feel even worse about themselves so bravo.

@Scutterbug , are you a doctor? I know a GP very well and that’s just the sort of advice they advocate for people with mental health issues. Apparently and unfortunately the majority of people don’t act on the advice.

The government runs campaigns like this all the time - promoting healthy eating, exercise, taking care of your mental health etc.

The government does run these type of campaigns.

the eat 5 a day campaign is about improving health and reducing cancer.

there’s also Change 4 life which is focused on obesity and This Girl Can which is focused on exercise.

so …. They do!

My health issues are all congenital. Its shite but it is what is. I should have tried harder from conception I guess. Failure from day one.