7.4 million people claim some form of disability or incapacity benefits

[MidnightPatrol]

Given the various back and forth of discussion on the reduction in disability and incapacity benefits, not much data on the debate has been shared - it’s a mainly emotional debate.

So for context, the figures:

• 7.4 million people claim sickness benefits of some kind
• The total number of claimants has increased by a third in five years (up 1.8 million)
• 1 in 10 working age adults claims, and 1 in 12 school aged children
• 1.2 million people aged under 25 claim sickness benefits, a rise of two thirds in 5 years - 1 in 15 claiming something
• 4 million adults claim sickness benefit of some kind, up from 2.8 million in 2019. Two thirds of that increase is people under 50.
• 2.5 million people claim UC health benefits, up 500k people this year alone - in 2019 less than 500k people claimed this
• 1.8 million have no requirement to look for work
• Sickness benefits for working age adults are expected to cost £70b by 2030 - a third of the cost of the NHS

Hmm I think I'll listen to LSE over Moneyweek...

"Again, a huge increase in a short space of time. I wonder what is driving that increase - has it changed at all?"

Your explanation? Scroungers rather than genuine?

This did occur to me, but the same issue applies to UC etc for which the government concede that the figures are much higher. so this does indicate that PIP fraud is very low and that it certainly shouldn't be a priority amongst benefits

@beetr00 no idea - accessibility rules have changed perhaps?

More affordable route than traditional leasing due to higher interest rates?

Just generally relayed to the higher number of people in receipt of the benefits and so able to access the scheme?

The real barriers are those that employers put up.

On the radio earlier, a lady rang in that was out of work for years due to MH. Through some organisation (I think it was the Shaw Trust), she got a job at Tesco where if she was having a wobble, could just tell someone and they would let her go and do something a bit less demanding.

Nowadays, supermarket work is not the easy option people think it is. There is a thread on here at the moment about it. No one cares about the employees anymore. No NMW job employer is going to employ someone who needs time out every so often because they feel overwhelmed.

Exactly 👍

Interesting - I can find these figures from the OBR suggesting that migrants to the UK contribute positively to the Uk economy.

“The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) provides further insights, estimating that migrants contribute approximately £19,500 per person per year in taxes, including income tax, National Insurance contributions, and value-added tax (VAT). In contrast, the benefits and services they receive are limited, especially during their first five years in the country, as most new migrants are initially ineligible for most benefits.”

migrants and people with disabilities aren’t making the rest of us poorer - inequality between the very rich and those on lowest incomes is causing that. And until something is done to make society more equal again things are only going to get worse. Inequality causes poverty.

"More affordable route than traditional leasing due to higher interest rates?"

for whom? the "dirty" claimants?

I’m going to back right at the start about the 7 millions claim.
This number includes PIP, but also DLA (children) and AA (retired).

I think it’s an important distinction because we don’t have 7 millions of working age people receiving disability benefits.

If We only look at PIP, the number of people receiving support is about the same other EU countries (knowing it’s hard to compare because systems are so different)

And if the isdue is ‘what? That many disabled people?’ Well yes… they are everywhere. Because actually disability isn’t unusual and people are very good at hiding their issues aka faking being well.

For PIP, the only way you could commit fraud is by out right lying about your disability, not reporting a change that means you don't need it anymore, or claiming for someone who has died.
UC is means tested, so there is more scope for fraud, so it would make sense that the fraud rate would be higher. I personally know of two people who were done for fraud because they did not declare their partner living with them. Not by accident or ignorance either... they knew what they were doing. They did get investigated (including being watched), and both cases made the local press.

Do you think that disabled people surviving on PIP and UC will easily get a car on lease?

Accessibility ie how easy it is to get the higher mobility component hasn’t changed.
If there is an increase, it’s because there are more people needing support = bring ill or dusabled.

Where are all of these additional disability friendly jobs going to come from?

Some employers are already skilled at accommodating differing needs, but surely there is likely to be a big mismatch between the types of roles they can offer and the needs of people being encouraged to work.

Labour shortages in my local area are in care work and agriculture. Where reliability and physical capabilities are essential to these roles.

What are you on about?

The minority who are actually paying in are preventing the ones who are on benefits to participate and do their bit? By giving them money?

Are you serious?

Why are you bringing this into internal UK affairs?

Again, why should vulnerable people be plunged into abject poverty because 52% of people were too stupid to see past their xenophobia and dislike of migrants from Eastern Europe to realise that leaving the EU would be a terrible thing for us, financially. Which it is and continues to be!

I actually think that if anyone here voted leave you’ve got absolutely no right to now be blaming disabled people for anything whatsoever.

What I meant to say is that Brexit caused a lot of the richest people in the UK to leave this country and go elsewhere. If you voted Leave, you need to own it instead of now being resentful of disabled people because your shopping has gone up exponentially.

Exactly!
Employers want someone reliable... they want the best of the best.

There are lots of care jobs where I live... but you need to be able to drive and have your own car.
Someone on another thread said if you can go shopping, then you can get a job at Lidl. The only Lidl vacancy going in my town is store manager. I have never worked in retail!

What time will they be laying out the new rules tomorrow?

Carers allowance comes out of the UC and the car payments come out of the pip. You have no idea how hard it is to get an ADHD diagnosis for a child, it takes many agencies, not just a qualified psychologist. She really needs a new friend 🤨

Exactly. Most of the vacancies by me are care work. Hardly suitable for a lot people with disabilities. As someone who works in a supermarket, there are cutting the hours down, there are less jobs in the sector these days. Where will the kind of jobs someone who's been out of work due to disability come from?

Really?? You don't think that global political trends are of any concern to the people of the UK? You don't think that the US elections signify anything important or worrying about the direction of politics and power in general? You don't think the super wealthy already influence British politics?

What about people who have good jobs but then their circumstances change? Very rare these days for a couple to both not work. And anyone in that situation would be hit by the benefit cap.

what about people who rely on the NHS?

To say that only rich people should have children is stupid.

Benefits taken away. Getting a job the only option. I bet many suddenly are not sick anymore! Fed up of global pandemic excuses. Get a job and support yourselves!

That’s different. Nobody can predict the future but to make a silly decision here and now knowing the taxpayer will (yet again) pick up after you is wrong.

The people who quote the ‘0% fraud days’ though I think must not have jobs with the public. I’m a nurse- we meet people every day who play the system. Every single day- know what to say, how to act, what to ask for to squeeze the most out every benefit opportunity. I also meet people working who are run ragged, taxed to the eyeballs, can’t afford to heat their homes or have children they desperately want. I save my sympathy for them and those who are disabled and genuinely need support.