7.4 million people claim some form of disability or incapacity benefits

[MidnightPatrol]

Given the various back and forth of discussion on the reduction in disability and incapacity benefits, not much data on the debate has been shared - it’s a mainly emotional debate.

So for context, the figures:

• 7.4 million people claim sickness benefits of some kind
• The total number of claimants has increased by a third in five years (up 1.8 million)
• 1 in 10 working age adults claims, and 1 in 12 school aged children
• 1.2 million people aged under 25 claim sickness benefits, a rise of two thirds in 5 years - 1 in 15 claiming something
• 4 million adults claim sickness benefit of some kind, up from 2.8 million in 2019. Two thirds of that increase is people under 50.
• 2.5 million people claim UC health benefits, up 500k people this year alone - in 2019 less than 500k people claimed this
• 1.8 million have no requirement to look for work
• Sickness benefits for working age adults are expected to cost £70b by 2030 - a third of the cost of the NHS

Agree with this - the amount and ease it is to access some sort of easy cash has spread like wildfire due to sheer numbers claiming (so everyone knows someone who tells someone etc) and the advice and portrayals on social media and near enough anyone and everyone can claim now. Also agree with posters who identify working, for most, is more hard work than ever so options to opt out or get a PIP/DLA top up for holidays and kids savings takes the edge off and makes many more bold with throwing in a claim.

Where did I compare? I said I know how hard it is. But 28 years on disability benefits? Come on.

Don't think that's the point being made. If you chose to have children while on benefits (as in decide to have them) then it's probably a good idea if you limit the.number. I'd love to have three.children but I can't afford it and I'm not on benefits.

I didn't realise disability had a time limit.

I really hope the Government stay firm and strong on their intention to review it. There’s talk that the big backlash may prompt a u turn. Of course there will be a backlash - people are being told they might have to start getting help to get them back into the workplace rather than just getting benefits paid into their bank accounts every month. The ones shouting the loudest are those who probably know they shouldn’t be getting benefits, so they know they’re going to be the ones who might lose it.

I didn't find it horrendous at all, fill in form, provide medical evidence, talk to a claims nurse. I got my PIP straight away. I had to wait a few months but got back pay of 2K.
The NHS has been horrendous, I'm on morphine, bedbound and my urgent operation has been delayed over and over again for a year. I'm still just about working from home from my bed on a laptop but I have to. I can't afford not to work.
Once I've had the op I'll be able to go back into work and come off PIP.
It's the NHS that needs fixing.

So if that’s two people ie a couple ( I’m assuming you mean ) on a pension
Thats £440/ week pension
How does that suddenly become £600/£700 pw
thats an extra £160 pw extra = £8320 a year
up to £260pw extra = £ 13520.

How does that add up?
Is that inc winter fuel and rent?

So, if we talk about it, and are worried about it, then we must be frauds? Right...
Funny how the people who say that are the ones that wont be affected by it.

But don't be complacent that sickness or disability could not happen to you, and you will need the welfare system that you are so happy to see abolished right now.

I really don’t think there will be a u turn
So far those proposing the change are standing firm
Plus
The country can’t afford it anymore
Thats just common sense

Absolutely agree. I stopped at two kids. Couldn’t afford anymore, even though I worked full time and earned decent money. Why can’t I have an extra child, but people think that it shouldn’t be an issue for someone unemployed?

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/zero-percent-fraud-rate-for-pip,-dwp-figures-show

For the people up thread insisting they were just interested in facts and statistics. Care to comment on this one?

You need to earn 41k to be a net contributor. It is a very small percentage of the population that are,

So all the nurses who are band 5 in the NHS in England, and this is the majority of the nurses working in the NHS, and a good chunk of the band 6's, are not net contributors. Maybe wages are too low ?

‘It’s easier to thrash the populace’
exactly

which goes hand in hand with my pp on Labour playing the game well by hitting others first that are not traditional Labour voters ( and rarely garner support ) and then going for welfare cuts after.

'Having a disability of some sort doesn’t necessarily mean you need to claim additional financial support.'

'Not for mental health reasons, no. If you have a learning disability or an obvious physical disability that’s different. But I don’t believe somebody is ‘too anxious to work’ if they’re not too anxious to do school runs, date, go on holiday and to the pub. Anyone who believes they can be is very gullible indeed.'

Have either of you ever found life hard?
To address the first quotation I have listed: you'd find it incredibly difficult to get disability benefits for something low level, for the DWP and PIP, the assessments describe that it's more about how the disability/health condition affects you rather than the diagnosis although that can help.
There are so many people out there that don't claim disability benefits when they might be eligible, I used to be one of then.
Analysing the second quotation: who are you to judge? Have you ever been around people that suffer mentally? Of course there are levels of mental illness and anxiety, but you are ignoring the fact that the disability benefits are generally difficult to claim and the assessors often lie.
If you don't believe me, there are threads detailing that on here and unfortunately it has happened to me twice. They said I was smartly dressed and well put together when I had just experienced a panic attack and had toothpaste stains down my inside out pyjamas.
Also:
I was raped when I was FOUR years old by one of my parents and subjected to continual sexual abuse throughout my childhood and longer whilst the other piece of shit adult allowed it happen and normalised it.
This was accompanied by persistent gaslighting to deny my reality and to prevent school and such finding out.
I have other, more physical health limitations, but my disordered mind that won't permit me to sleep because I don't feel safe is very much affecting other areas of my life, like the occasions when I forget to look before I cross a main road.
I haven't always been able to communicate those problems, but moreso now after therapy and if I can't tell the benefits assessors what I struggle with, in some circumstances they will assume you are fine or judge you as such. In a snapshot I could seem 'fine' due to my dissociation, but I don't need your judgement thanks very much.

I honestly believe that those peoples who absolutely cannot physically work will be fine. But if with help via therapy, counselling, physio, and similar, others can do paid work, then they should have to do so. And it’s those people who are being the most vocal about losing it.

This thread was supposed to be a factual non emotional thread in contrast to other threads on MN on this subject.

Just for once
It would be interesting to hear the facts and MN suggestions.

But it is the point. If people who have kids can't afford them...they shouldn’t have them. That's what's being argued. You can't have different rules for different people. Either you're a worthy parent or you're not. Apparently disabled people who don't work are not?

Are we seeing a little class solidarity emerging here that's so lovely 🥰🥰

So there’s an immediate cost saving
Including for all kids as well ie the non disabled too.

im not aware this is being looked at however.

Well it does seem Labour are at least being consistent

It's crazy. Time to reform. How come the UK has so many people claiming to be disabled. Do other countries have this system. Be interesting to know.

Perhaps employment benefits should be accrued by years of working so support is related to the tax paid in earlier years of employment? And therefore time limited?

Which clearly can't be applied to the people who are disabled from birth, or suffer truly life changing disability through terrible diseases like motor neurone or MS or via dreadful accidents. But the soaring numbers of people claiming for whatever is this year's equivalent of a 'bad back'? We need to close down the soft cushy options. Because tax payers have had enough. I'm still a taxpayer as a pensioner and my contribution for complex reasons which won't be repeated was over £9k last year.

The usual story is you are also contributing to education (DC spent three largely wasted years in the state system, and we paid privately for the other 12). In Australia, I would have had a tax credit for paying twice.

DH and I created two businesses in our 30s. His is still going; mine aged out, but we keep our heads above water financially. We have been competent and hardworking for 40-odd years of work, paid all the tax, and the VAT, never inherited until we were well over 60, have done all the right sensible stuff on house, pension and saving, and we thought the next few years would have been a nice phase of enjoyment before decrepitude. And then we hoped our DC would inherit a sensible % of our estate. Not all of it, of course, but some.

There’s certain elements of PIP for example that needs to be looked at. There was someone on MN saying they get PIP whilst earning £100k per year, working a full time job! That shouldn’t be happening. If someone earns £100k, a portion of that money should be able to support extra expenses associated with their disability. Because if someone is able to work at that level, then their disability isn’t so great that they need a lot of paid support, so shouldn’t mean they need PIP. The whole welfare system is such a mess. And yes, people don’t want the status quo to change, because they’re doing well out of it thank you very much, but it’s had it’s time, and needs to be looked at as it’s unsustainable in its current form.

So lots of people have a condition which makes it harder for them to participate in society. Rather than stigmatise those 7 million individuals, how about we create a society for the benefit of all, not the few?

Radical, eh?

I know not everyone's story will match mine, but the reality of how difficult it is to claim benefits for most people is damning.
Lots of medical evidence is needed and quite rightly so, unless there's not adequate written proof to provide.
I've seen an NHS neurologist twice and he was very beneficial to me and luckily provided me with an NHS headed summary that will hopefully assist me when my award ends.
As I have outlined in my last post, unfortunately assessors lie and it's a known thing
Luckily I've won all my appeals, some of them at court.
I have other friends that have confirmed the fact that it is very difficult to claim. I'm not requesting that it be 'easy' to claim, but a fair assessment and analysis of the medical evidence with less black and white questions and no lying would be great. With this in mind: I was asked on at least two occasions insensitively what stopped me committing suicide last time I considered it.
Nice.