7.4 million people claim some form of disability or incapacity benefits

[MidnightPatrol]

Given the various back and forth of discussion on the reduction in disability and incapacity benefits, not much data on the debate has been shared - it’s a mainly emotional debate.

So for context, the figures:

• 7.4 million people claim sickness benefits of some kind
• The total number of claimants has increased by a third in five years (up 1.8 million)
• 1 in 10 working age adults claims, and 1 in 12 school aged children
• 1.2 million people aged under 25 claim sickness benefits, a rise of two thirds in 5 years - 1 in 15 claiming something
• 4 million adults claim sickness benefit of some kind, up from 2.8 million in 2019. Two thirds of that increase is people under 50.
• 2.5 million people claim UC health benefits, up 500k people this year alone - in 2019 less than 500k people claimed this
• 1.8 million have no requirement to look for work
• Sickness benefits for working age adults are expected to cost £70b by 2030 - a third of the cost of the NHS

Giving them money while they try to get better, because they can't work until they are starting to recover, is a basic human right
I'd agree if evidence showed that that time helped with getting better. Unfortunately, it does the opposite. Inactivity is shown to lead to more anxiety and depression become chronic and more likely to leave applicants dependent on benefits.

A genuine question. Many have cited COVID, which at the time was indeed very scary, but what is it about it that made so many people unable to recover and move on 5 years on?

then can we stop with the persistent 'people on disabled benefits are stupid, aren't in work and don't need the benefits they have qualified for'? And particularly, anyone who has never had to complete a DLA or PIP form and assessment should not be telling the rest of us that's it's easy to get a disability benefit just by saying you have a certain diagnosis?

For middle/high rate care, the child's care needs would have to be so high that they have care needs at night too.

My son gets high rate care but not for ADHD/ASD. It needed a lot of evidence.

Some people are refusing to accept that you can be severely disabled by a mental health condition, or a neurological condition, it is these people who will suffer. The very people who find the process of claiming so difficult due to their mental state.

here I am
looking for @MidnightPatrol

I think it’s more a Great minds think alike 😉 Midnight

Joking in what regard?

I’m not sure about ‘worthy’ but I don’t think it’s controversial to think some claimants will need vastly more help than others (which is entirely justified), while some others may be claiming on slightly more spurious grounds (eg the big increase in mental health related or pain disorders, which some posters have suggested may be easier to fudge the assessments for).

7.4 million people claiming some form of disability or sickness benefit (and that increasing so quickly) is a large number, and I’d challenge the idea that shouldn’t be scrutinised at all.

A genuine question. Many have cited COVID, which at the time was indeed very scary, but what is it about it that made so many people unable to recover and move on 5 years on?

You've met people with long covid? I know a man in the prime of life who has been medically retired. He was utterly incapable of doing his job - any job - as a result of his symptoms. Never seen anything so desperate in my life. He is a wonderful man, too hard working if anything, desperately depressed that his life has turned out this way. Not what he wanted.

You are being emotional yourself, because you are not engaging with the full facts. You seem to think you’re coming from a place of great rationality while ignoring all the facts placed before you that don’t fully align with your view - a view clearly driven by the emotions of resentment and bitterness. If it was indeed driven by rationality you’d do better at engaging with the full picture.

And you are being “nasty” as you put it by suggesting that we just need to massively harm vulnerable people in order to balance the books.

You’ve said elsewhere you don’t think fraud is the problem.

So it follows you must think genuine claimants are the problem.

That is indeed nasty, I’m afraid.

It’s not really about that. If Long Covid is affecting millions then that will be adding to the figures. This is people
who were perfectly healthy and happy working before. I’m sure they’d love to be able to work again. I don’t think people quite understand the impact these figures have. Current figures are around 1.9 million people.

This won’t get any better since Covid is circulating constantly. Not sure what the answer is but this is definitely having an impact.

Okay let’s check back in 3 years after the cuts and you can tell me all the ways your life has improved as a result of them.

Yet another poster who thinks ADHD diagnoses are based solely on a child’s inability to concentrate. Oh well, at least we’ve moved on from the naughty boy trope where a child is apparently diagnosed based on how ‘badly behaved’ he is. And I say ‘he’ deliberately here.

My eldest child was assessed for ADHD and found not to have it, despite having a list of traits the length of my gorilla like arm. Never mind that his dad has it. And his uncle. And his cousin. They don’t hand the diagnoses out like sweetie mice. It’s a pretty rigorous process.

and fools seldom differ 😆

Yes. Many healthy active people. People are actually committing suicide as they can’t cope with going from a full healthy life to barely leaving the house. Health and fitness is no protection. At some point people are going to start to understand the devastating effect this is having.

Wasn't there a big hoo-haa at one point about taxing Amazon and Starbucks and some other companies who don't pay tax in UK?
Was that ever resolved?

Looks like it's all forgotten and instead we have been turned against each other to see what appetite there is to cut the benefits bill.

Nothing about regenerating the economy and getting business up and running. Even our tech start-ups go and list on the Nasdaq rather than the LSE.

The UK economy looks a bit 'rob Peter to pay Paul' ... just need to figure out who the public is currently happy to throw under the bus.

@Itsalljustinmyhead indeed- I’m not right wing at all but I certainly think to be able to do right and the absolute best by people who genuinely cannot work you have to be aware that yes some people who it seems are unable to work citing MH are actually all there enough to be very clued up about how to get additional funds by gaming the system - I appreciate some mumsnetters think it can’t happen based on their particular experiences but it can and does happen. Would be interesting to see with regards to payments and claims made relative to MH if there was no financial incentive at all for diagnoses - you are still entitled to benefits if the standard benefits are due, but no additional ones- so the only reasons to get formal diagnoses were relative to obtaining treatment and support and to a higher level than at the moment - my son who at 26 has adult diagnosed ADHD was told he could potentially claim but as he honestly told me , it doesn’t actually cost him anymore to get by, he was more concerned about adequate medication and access to support if he needed it and didn’t want to take public funds he doesn’t need and he’s an average wage earner in London. I know 2 people one of 61 and 1 of 59 who have never worked beyond mid 20s , neither with partners or kids- both perfectly capable of doing so , have played the anxiety/MH card all the time, strangely doesn’t affect their ability to do ad hoc projects that interest them or holidays or popping down the pub - they simply are at the stage they could only get low earning non skilled work ( both are intelligent) due to lack of experience and now can’t be arsed and are happy to get by on benefits- personally I would be bored rigid but I do think it’s a pisstake on public funds-.

If we save money in one area it’s available to spend in another for the overall good of everyone. That’s what this whole Govn is planning anyway.

So here’s hoping.

I'm not surprised mental health issues are through the roof.
2 adults working full time still need uc to top up their wages because work doesn't pay.
Let's say these 2 adults have 2 children. 1 child is ill 1 parent has to take day off to look after them. Work won't pay them for time off and 0 hour means hours will be cut for the foreseeable future.
Because hours have dropped uc call you in for an appointment meaning you have to take MORE time off to attend job center.
Job centre decides that's not good enough reason so sanctions them money wise. Private renting so having to find even more money to pay for that, not forgetting they could be kicked out at a moments notice, with no social housing the reality is 1 hotel room for who knows how long.
During this childcare hasn't been paid by uc as they've suddenly decided not to accept to document that you've previously sent in.

Dealing with stuff like that for any length of time is draining and debilitating and people can only deal with that for so long knowing there's no way out of course they are going to be depressed. Who wouldn't?!

It won't be everyone.

Just those who aren't disabled or don't care for their disabled child.

Sorry to spoil the ending, but it won’t result in savings.

Businesses
Farmers
Education
Pensioners

whose up next
Get in the queue

I do agree that it needs sorting but first they should short out the unemployed. Those that are not working because they don't want to or because they get more money on benefits. Not the genuine disabled who might be young too.

You invited me back in 3 years so I assumed you were happy to wait and see.

If anyone can tell me which ‘rich’ we should be taxing, and how much, and how the tax can keep up with the projected benefits bill of an addition 10 billion a year, and how those big companies will stay open with virtually everyone too disabled to work for them by 2050, I will listen.

Please - go ahead - change my mind.