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7.4 million people claim some form of disability or incapacity benefits

1000 replies

MidnightPatrol · 17/03/2025 08:15

Given the various back and forth of discussion on the reduction in disability and incapacity benefits, not much data on the debate has been shared - it’s a mainly emotional debate.

So for context, the figures:

  • 7.4 million people claim sickness benefits of some kind
  • The total number of claimants has increased by a third in five years (up 1.8 million)
  • 1 in 10 working age adults claims, and 1 in 12 school aged children
  • 1.2 million people aged under 25 claim sickness benefits, a rise of two thirds in 5 years - 1 in 15 claiming something
  • 4 million adults claim sickness benefit of some kind, up from 2.8 million in 2019. Two thirds of that increase is people under 50.
  • 2.5 million people claim UC health benefits, up 500k people this year alone - in 2019 less than 500k people claimed this
  • 1.8 million have no requirement to look for work
  • Sickness benefits for working age adults are expected to cost £70b by 2030 - a third of the cost of the NHS
OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
MidnightPatrol · 17/03/2025 15:31

beetr00 · 17/03/2025 15:27

"welfare claimant growth" fgs @MidnightPatrol the majority of our population who NEED extra help, are not just numbers on a government spreadsheet.

It is NOT acceptable to penalise our most vulnerable to balance the damn books.

How should the government fund the increase from £65b to £100b in cost over the next five years?

Why have the numbers of claimants increased by a third in five years?

Burying your head in the sand doesn’t help - the most vulnerable in society are worse off if the system collapses under the strain of the cost to support so many people.

OP posts:
IAmNotASheep · 17/03/2025 15:32

Pickledpoppetpickle · 17/03/2025 15:22

jesus wept. There are literally thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people out there who meet the threshold for the 'disabled' descriptor who get up every single day and go to work. A huge proportion of those people are able to do that because they receive PIP or their parents receive DLA.

I have a disabled child. He qualifies for middle rate care which means I qualify for Carer's Allowance. He is no less disabled - and needs no less care - just because his condition can be managed by his teachers enabling me to work.

He still costs me a fortune. And I am still awake at 3am on a frequent basis helping him. We manage. Many with his condition don't. Many are having to attend school several times a day to ensure their child gets the medication and support they need.

People with disabilities are not stupid. They're not lesser beings. They don't need to 'get skilled' any more than the average person. They do need people to understand that disability is a real thing, that the impact is real - whether that be frequent medication, regular hospital appointments, a need for specialist equipment or anything else. Being disabled is frequently expensive - conditions are managed by a whole host of therapies, medications, specialist diets, etc etc that are not available on the NHS or through social care. Families are going all out to provide what they need so their loved on can live as average a life as possible. The number of people who begrudge that is beyond me.

I don’t think people begrudge true claimants. I can’t see anyone here doing so

The point of the thread is the unaffordable rise in disability benefits and
as the thread has progressed
people have pointed out fraudulent claimants ( of which you aren’t )

Nevertheless. However we look at it the bill must reduce and it seems that labour are looking at reducing costs for the severely disabled who can’t work and propping up the system to encourage those who can work to do so.

PocketSand · 17/03/2025 15:34

Failure of early intervention and timely treatments impacts the individual and their family first and then the state who should be footing the bill for the long lasting economic damage their policies have caused. But previous investment delays impact.

Now the impact of previous lack of investment is impacting on government spending elsewhere.

The state (of whatever government is elected to rule) are not willing to accept responsibility and want to pass it back to the individuals and their families that they failed in the first place so they can spend elsewhere.

I like to think my son would only suffer the mild discomfort of most people but be able to be well enough to have an average life, with a job he may well hate but tolerate, wages that are really too low but OK, friends that are transient and not that great but OK, maybe married with a partner he sometimes argues with or maybe DC that sometimes piss him off and are a challenge but a source of happiness. Struggle with the costs of housing and life in general but muddle through. Maybe even have mild depression and rely on ADs for a while. Maybe get divorced and have to navigate co-parenting.

Instead none of this is even remotely possible. Late diagnosis, tribunal placement in special school. Too little, too late. The mental health damage was done. Placement failed. DS housebound and me a f/t carer. And now they may reduce or stop PIP to encourage him into work. They couldn’t even deliver secondary education!

Life is not what I expected but I have reconciled myself to sacrifice having had years of living with a suicidal offspring - how much would a PhD and academic career compensated for a child dead by suicide - and we muddle along. But we won’t muddle along without PIP or ESA or CA. We will be in crisis. Individuals and family will struggle first but the state can’t avoid the additional cost hitting it hard and fast because provision is already cut to the bone.

This is the context. We are looking at the figures wrong and are encouraged to do so. Only a small minority of those diagnosed as depressed/anxious qualify for PIP and are the most severely affected. Something like 35% are otherwise disabled. The idea that anyone would qualify is ludicrous. Support to apply for PIP provided mostly by charities exists because the majority of legitimate claims are turned down but repealed on tribunal.

Changing eligibility criteria in this climate will absolutely result in an increase of claims being referred to tribunal. At tax payer cost. I disagreed with the points received previously but didn’t progress it further because there was no point - DS still qualified for higher rate - but I would absolutely challenge reduction. And win at tribunal. For example, I manage all financial matters, have POA for financial affairs, and DWP appointee, but according to assessment DS is generally OK with complex budgeting and only received 2 points (needs prompting). The tribunal system will collapse and all claims will have to be paid pending tribunal.

Where is the saving?

I can understand that people are concerned but they are misguided to think that the disabled are the problem. Not even the disabled who don’t need PIP, like pensioners who don’t need WFP or parents who don’t need CB but save it as a bonus but people who rely on PIP to stay in work or to survive.

If it’s just we can’t afford it then means test other benefits before going after disability benefits.

And first and foremost make employers pay a living wage so tax payers don’t have to stump up benefit payments to subsidise low wages or high housing costs or high child care costs.

There are alternatives.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

NotenoughHolidays · 17/03/2025 15:35

Bumpitybumper · 17/03/2025 14:26

Exactly this!

To be honest I find it odd how so many people are absolutely desperate to defend everyone that claims disability benefits. Don't they see that the piss takers are effectively using the genuinely ill and disabled as human shields? Their exaggerations and outright lies have meant that it's now impossible to tell those that are genuinely unable to work apart from those that would find it difficult and would rather not. They are leaving the government no option but to put in measures that will undoubtedly detriment genuine cases. People should be angry with the piss takers but instead direct their anger at those that see that reform is necessary as the situation has become unsustainable. It is completely misdirected

We're worried that the type of reform taken will affect the genuinely disabled.
Everyone is saying we need to cut the benefits bill, but no one is saying how you do this without affecting genuine claimants.

JenniferBooth · 17/03/2025 15:36

AutumnTheCrow · 17/03/2025 08:25

What are the stats on the number of people on a disability, sickness or incapacity benefit who are currently waiting for treatment, or who are having unsatisfactory treatment, on the NHS (eg being ‘seen’ by a doctor, physio or therapist but getting no better, deteriorating or being turned down for / don’t qualify for a particular treatment)?

Also, is there double counting of claimants who have, say, a PIP award and an open UC claim?

Yes im sick of seeing the NHS get off scott free when it comes to this.

LoztWorld · 17/03/2025 15:38

@MidnightPatrol Why have the numbers of claimants increased by a third in five years

Posters have repeatedly listed different credible factors that play into this. You never engage with those factors and keep asking the same nonsense question again and again.

It’s not some great mystery at all. There’s plenty of evidence for the different reasons this might be happening.

And yes, some over-claiming will be part of the picture, but that you believe this to be the most significant part has to be ideological. It’s just not what the evidence suggests.

LoztWorld · 17/03/2025 15:40

NotenoughHolidays · 17/03/2025 15:35

We're worried that the type of reform taken will affect the genuinely disabled.
Everyone is saying we need to cut the benefits bill, but no one is saying how you do this without affecting genuine claimants.

Yes it’s because you can’t do it without affecting genuine claimants. They know and they either dont care or actively want the genuine claimants to have to struggle even more.

Pickledpoppetpickle · 17/03/2025 15:40

IAmNotASheep · 17/03/2025 15:32

I don’t think people begrudge true claimants. I can’t see anyone here doing so

The point of the thread is the unaffordable rise in disability benefits and
as the thread has progressed
people have pointed out fraudulent claimants ( of which you aren’t )

Nevertheless. However we look at it the bill must reduce and it seems that labour are looking at reducing costs for the severely disabled who can’t work and propping up the system to encourage those who can work to do so.

yes, people begrudge genuine claimants. There are posts like the one I last quoted which saw disabled people as an exclusive group of people who don't work and somehow need upskilling. That point is missed on this thread again and again and again...you could get all disabled people into work and they'd still be eligible for payments because being disabled is expensive. Really expensive. And our Government has, at some level, recognised that.

Fraud on PIP has been recognised as being as low as 0.1%. Yet posters want all disabled people into work, no excuses. You're talking about a few thousand people there at most - and a percentage of those people will already be tax payers.

If there is a rise in the number of people who meet the thresholds, the answer is not to up the threshold. The answer is to develop robust health and social care systems that ensure people are not getting sicker and sicker whilst waiting for treatment. Systems which ensure employers get the support they need to ensure they in turn support a disabled employee. Systems which use legal means to effectively and swiftly challenge discrimination.

vivainsomnia · 17/03/2025 15:41

Loads of kids take longer to mature and aren't a great fit for the classroom environment, yet I think the school would provide 'evidence' for an ADHD DLA claim if required
Many of them will never have been taught to concentrate. Concentration is something that start in the early months of life. It doesn't just happen.

Sadly, it's easier to put it down to a disorder rather than a parental failure. Of course, that doesn't take away from the fact that there ARE cases where it is a neurological condition for which medicating is essential.

Delatron · 17/03/2025 15:44

Dragonfly97 · 17/03/2025 08:48

I think Covid has some bearing on these stats, there are people with Long Covid for instance, plus an ageing population. I claim PIP for a spinal condition; I have scoliosis and spinal arthritis. I'm nearly 60, I worked since I was 17, but my scoliosis became more painful as I aged, I wasn't able to have an operation to correct the curvature. It impacts my lungs and digestion. PIP has been a lifeline for me now, as I've had to give up work but don't get my pension for another 7 years. It is an in -work benefit though, so disabled people who are able to can work as well. It helps with the extra costs of being disabled.

Completely agree with this. The numbers have gone up dramatically since 2020. But nobody is wondering why. Mental health issues since lockdown/covid may partly to blame but if every time we get Covid there’s a 10% chance of getting long Covid
then that’s millions of people with this (and this will only get worse until we do more research on treatments).

IAmNotASheep · 17/03/2025 15:44

NotenoughHolidays · 17/03/2025 15:35

We're worried that the type of reform taken will affect the genuinely disabled.
Everyone is saying we need to cut the benefits bill, but no one is saying how you do this without affecting genuine claimants.

But that’s exactly what labour has said they are doing
A freeze or cap on payments to those who can’t work along with more stringent and revised assessments.
Then more money to encourage those fit to work back to work

The severely disabled will be punished from what I’ve read so far which to be frank sounds a bit arse about tit 😳

MidnightPatrol · 17/03/2025 15:45

LoztWorld · 17/03/2025 15:38

@MidnightPatrol Why have the numbers of claimants increased by a third in five years

Posters have repeatedly listed different credible factors that play into this. You never engage with those factors and keep asking the same nonsense question again and again.

It’s not some great mystery at all. There’s plenty of evidence for the different reasons this might be happening.

And yes, some over-claiming will be part of the picture, but that you believe this to be the most significant part has to be ideological. It’s just not what the evidence suggests.

@LoztWorld it isn’t a nonsense question.

The number of claimants is growing, and that is why there is a significant problem which needs to be addressed asap.

An emotional outburst and accusations of all sorts of nastiness, don’t solve the economic problem, which is that continued growth in claimants is not sustainable for the country.

It is not about targeting the disabled and vulnerable (as the pp claimed), but about ‘balancing the books’ and ensuring the UK can continue to functionally provide services.

Just saying ‘oh but I think these people are vulnerable, how very dare you’ doesn’t wave the problem of funding it away.

OP posts:
Careertimenow · 17/03/2025 15:45

LoztWorld · 17/03/2025 15:40

Yes it’s because you can’t do it without affecting genuine claimants. They know and they either dont care or actively want the genuine claimants to have to struggle even more.

There's a loop hole that's being abused by people who are not genuinely disabled or who's disability can cope without handouts. That's what people are talking about.

Pickledpoppetpickle · 17/03/2025 15:46

LoztWorld · 17/03/2025 15:29

Elsewhere another poster who delusionally describes themselves as “a good person” seems to think disabled kids just shouldn’t get an education that meets their needs because they are not the “taxpayers of the future”.

Drowning in kindness over here

it's not even a lack of kindness, it's just plain wrong. Thousands of people meet the disabled descriptor but are intelligent, walking and talking human beings who just want to be able to go to work like anyone else. Only they experience challenges the rest of us can't really imagine - constant pain, the need to medicate several times a day, the need to attend hospital appointments or therapy appointments, or the need for an adapted loo and a ramp at the front of the building.....disabled people contribute to the economy as well, frequently in well paid, important roles. They're not just languishing at home in front of the TV all day.

HÆLTHEPAIN · 17/03/2025 15:47

Genuinue question. What is the point of threads like these? Every single one turns into a shit show.

All they do is get benefits bashers frothing and those who claim feeling more of a burden than they already do. And I really believe that these threads are started to cause aggro.

Either that or MN plant them because they’re always so busy, same as the fat bashing threads.

Careertimenow · 17/03/2025 15:47

vivainsomnia · 17/03/2025 15:41

Loads of kids take longer to mature and aren't a great fit for the classroom environment, yet I think the school would provide 'evidence' for an ADHD DLA claim if required
Many of them will never have been taught to concentrate. Concentration is something that start in the early months of life. It doesn't just happen.

Sadly, it's easier to put it down to a disorder rather than a parental failure. Of course, that doesn't take away from the fact that there ARE cases where it is a neurological condition for which medicating is essential.

Learning an instrument helps with concentration.

vivainsomnia · 17/03/2025 15:48

Depends what the child's care needs are. Not every child receives DLA due to ADHD/ASD
Well yes, but my comment was regarding ADHD specifically, which one of the areas that are seeing a significant increase in applications.

IAmNotASheep · 17/03/2025 15:48

MidnightPatrol · 17/03/2025 15:31

How should the government fund the increase from £65b to £100b in cost over the next five years?

Why have the numbers of claimants increased by a third in five years?

Burying your head in the sand doesn’t help - the most vulnerable in society are worse off if the system collapses under the strain of the cost to support so many people.

The point of the thread tho @beetr00 is to look at the figures and facts in a non emotional way
There are plenty of emotional threads but this is trying to be a
reality thread

So it really is about numbers on a Government spread sheet.
Thats how finance works.

Pickledpoppetpickle · 17/03/2025 15:49

An emotional outburst and accusations of all sorts of nastiness, don’t solve the economic problem, which is that continued growth in claimants is not sustainable for the country

Then recognise that the payments disabled people receive are the same payments that can help keep them in work, keep them pain free or symptom free? That give them the freedom of not having to navigate public transport allowing door to door access between home and work (something many of rely on). That are the difference between managing and not managing.

Take away disability benefits and there will be a whole host of people with disabilities who will struggle to continue working. The answer is probably more in benefits, not less!

LoztWorld · 17/03/2025 15:49

Careertimenow · 17/03/2025 15:45

There's a loop hole that's being abused by people who are not genuinely disabled or who's disability can cope without handouts. That's what people are talking about.

The point is that such people will make up a very small minority of the figures. And you can’t take them out of the system without massively harming the most vulnerable. And, as other posters have pointed out, creating massive extra costs through additional appeals and tribunals.

All of this because some people just don’t like the idea that some others are getting something for nothing. None of us like that idea, I’m sure. But you have to have a realistic view of the costs and benefits here.

I guarantee you you will notice no positive difference to your life as a result of cuts to disability benefits. But many, many disabled people will suddenly find themselves in the most dire of circumstances

beetr00 · 17/03/2025 15:50

MidnightPatrol · 17/03/2025 15:31

How should the government fund the increase from £65b to £100b in cost over the next five years?

Why have the numbers of claimants increased by a third in five years?

Burying your head in the sand doesn’t help - the most vulnerable in society are worse off if the system collapses under the strain of the cost to support so many people.

are you actually joking!

"Burying your head in the sand doesn’t help - the most vulnerable in society are worse off if the system collapses under the strain of the cost to support so many people"

It's not burying your head @MidnightPatrol

You obviously think some are more worthy than others?

Funding our disabled/vulnerable people is not just a damn brushstroke to deny their entitlement because of the government's inability to raise funds without destroying lives!

NotenoughHolidays · 17/03/2025 15:51

vivainsomnia · 17/03/2025 15:22

Day to day anxiety is not the same is GAD, which is an anxiety disorder, anxiety so out of control that it is disordered. It is debilitating and nothing at all to do with being a bit shy, or worried about something in particular
I know very well what GAD is, on a personal and familial basis. It's something that you don't cure but learn to live with as you face it and learn to cope through self-teaching.

There are no miracle cures. It's very hard work but it's very rewarding too and becomes easier and easier.

Sadly, too many lack the resilience to face it and instead crave a miracle cure from professionals who just don't have it. Medications can do wonders, as does cognitive therapy, but getting additional money if anything is giving people of false sense of comfort to retreat into themselves rather than continue to combat it.

Giving them money while they try to get better, because they can't work until they are starting to recover, is a basic human right.

vivainsomnia · 17/03/2025 15:52

Fraud on PIP has been recognised as being as low as 0.1%. Yet posters want all disabled people into work, no excuses. You're talking about a few thousand people there at most - and a percentage of those people will already be tax payers
Can we stop with that statement that statistics show there's no fraud as a mantra when it's been debunked on a number of occasions by explaining that fraud is low because investigations for fraud are just about non existent due to the costs of investigating and legal level of proof.

beetr00 · 17/03/2025 15:52

IAmNotASheep · 17/03/2025 15:32

I don’t think people begrudge true claimants. I can’t see anyone here doing so

The point of the thread is the unaffordable rise in disability benefits and
as the thread has progressed
people have pointed out fraudulent claimants ( of which you aren’t )

Nevertheless. However we look at it the bill must reduce and it seems that labour are looking at reducing costs for the severely disabled who can’t work and propping up the system to encourage those who can work to do so.

Are you sure "you are not a sheep"?

IAmNotASheep · 17/03/2025 15:54

LoztWorld · 17/03/2025 15:49

The point is that such people will make up a very small minority of the figures. And you can’t take them out of the system without massively harming the most vulnerable. And, as other posters have pointed out, creating massive extra costs through additional appeals and tribunals.

All of this because some people just don’t like the idea that some others are getting something for nothing. None of us like that idea, I’m sure. But you have to have a realistic view of the costs and benefits here.

I guarantee you you will notice no positive difference to your life as a result of cuts to disability benefits. But many, many disabled people will suddenly find themselves in the most dire of circumstances

It’s got absolutely nothing to do with

‘Some people just don’t like the idea that some others are getting something for nothing’

Read the news fgs
Or at least the headliner of this thread and stop with the emotional blackmail

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