7.4 million people claim some form of disability or incapacity benefits

[MidnightPatrol]

Given the various back and forth of discussion on the reduction in disability and incapacity benefits, not much data on the debate has been shared - it’s a mainly emotional debate.

So for context, the figures:

• 7.4 million people claim sickness benefits of some kind
• The total number of claimants has increased by a third in five years (up 1.8 million)
• 1 in 10 working age adults claims, and 1 in 12 school aged children
• 1.2 million people aged under 25 claim sickness benefits, a rise of two thirds in 5 years - 1 in 15 claiming something
• 4 million adults claim sickness benefit of some kind, up from 2.8 million in 2019. Two thirds of that increase is people under 50.
• 2.5 million people claim UC health benefits, up 500k people this year alone - in 2019 less than 500k people claimed this
• 1.8 million have no requirement to look for work
• Sickness benefits for working age adults are expected to cost £70b by 2030 - a third of the cost of the NHS

Maybe the rules have changed, but when my foreign DH moved to the UK with me (British, but born abroad) his visa clearly stated "No recourse to public funds". He also paid the IHS fee (approx £1000 a year) in full.

I'm not complaining about any of that - we both agree that it's appropriate that newcomers shouldn't benefit from other taxpayers - but the system is set up to specifically exclude foreign nationals, so I'm just querying the figure quoted?

Claiming for DLA doesn't mean automatically getting it. If he's absolutely fine then the claim would've been rejected anyway.

Ok that's fair. It sounded like you were singling out disabled chikdren, but if you feel the idea of free transport for anyone except in highly exceptional circumstances would save money that is a different stance.

That’s how it currently works
However we all know that the current and future bill to the country is not sustainable

So how it currently works may either
be changed completely
or be tinkered about with

Either way it looks like that 84% needs proving to cut the bill down.

Agreed my 14 year old has been in a special school since reception we have an abundance of evidence he's been getting DLA since he was three but was on MRC and LRM I decided to do a COC for HRC and HRM and eventually won but only after going to tribunal and it's obvious to anyone my sons needs are very complex so I find it hard to beleive people get a,DLA with no evidence.

Exactly this!

To be honest I find it odd how so many people are absolutely desperate to defend everyone that claims disability benefits. Don't they see that the piss takers are effectively using the genuinely ill and disabled as human shields? Their exaggerations and outright lies have meant that it's now impossible to tell those that are genuinely unable to work apart from those that would find it difficult and would rather not. They are leaving the government no option but to put in measures that will undoubtedly detriment genuine cases. People should be angry with the piss takers but instead direct their anger at those that see that reform is necessary as the situation has become unsustainable. It is completely misdirected

So, a mum at my son's school (my son's best friend) is very open about playing the system. She knew that children with ADHD can get DLA because she is from a family who all claim for everything and have never worked. All the cousins get DLA for ADHD. She pushed for her child to be tested for ADHD but nothing forthcoming. In the end, she paid for a private diagnosis. She applied for DLA with this private diagnosis. She filled in some forms stating that although her child is at mainstream education (with my son) she needed the additional support for a variety of reasons, all made up. She basically knew what to say - look on tiktok for advice on claiming for ADHD for a child, they are everywhere.

No allowances are made for her child and no additional money is spent on her, she is cashcow for her mum - the poor mite comes to my house most evenings for tea. She did not receive a follow up phone call to assess her claim, it was just approved. She now receives around £400 a month. For absolutely nothing.

I'm sorry it has been hard for you, and I feel quite angry that so many people are scamming the system for money. But it truly does happen.

Exactly
Im afraid it looks like we need some more radical thinking
Tinkering about at the edges hasn’t worked. That’s what the Conservatives did to not upset the apple cart too much…it hasn’t worked

Not being able to work when you can and want to is a very isolating experience and not a choice that most people make because they are lazy.

They don't.

People who haven't gone through the DLA process make a lot of incorrect assumptions such as things like a ADHD diagnosis is evidence enough for DLA.

Good point, do schools actually know how many children receive DLA, the rate they receive, whether their parents also claim carers etc as that poster seemed to know?

How did this mum get DLA without this child’s school being contacted? Because that doesn’t happen. I find it quite hard to believe that a parent would stand at the school gate and admit benefit fraud.

And if they did, something tells me you’d be reporting them?

I think sometimes it’s difficult to provide very specific evidence. My son’s therapist, for example, clearly knows that he has OCD and that it affects him very badly, but the therapist isn’t in our home watching the extensive, complicated rituals my son engages in. He doesn’t see him discarding clothes and refusing to wear them again. Or refusing to eat his food because he thinks he saw my finger touching the plate. Or standing in the shower for two hours and using an entire bottle of shower gel. The therapist only knows the tip of the iceberg. So I suppose I rely on the fact that the diagnosis, combined with what the therapist sees in front of him and what he can state generally about the debilitating nature of OCD in general, will be enough to lend weight to my very lengthy explanations of stuff my son can’t do or needs help with.

What is it then I would say the majority of the working population are depressed. I've met drug addicts with heavy drug addiction go to work what is it?

People DO get DLA for ADHD with little additional evidence! I am not sure why you are saying they do not - they do! It's frustrating that people just assuming those of us who know piss takers who know how to fill in a form and answer some questions are lying....

The therapist report and diagnosis are evidence but the bit I don't understand is someone being able to ask their mum to write a statement to say the child has additional support needs but not providing anything else apart from that and getting disability benefits.

Have you ever tried delivering parcels for Amazon?

You don't receive phone calls to assess claims with DLA. You send evidence with the form, usually including evidence from school if you claim they need extra support at school.

It isn't 'just approved' either. It can take 17+ weeks for it to all go through.

Sounds like your friend might be winding you up because that isn't how DLA works at all.

Yes, my job involves writing up annual reviews for children across mainstream and special schools.

I look at thier ehcp outcomes and provisions very carefully, and write up if they have achieved them and if the provisions are still right.

I'm yet to come across anything ridiculous at an individual level that is akin to 100k of the best education catering to theirr every want.

I do see things that are uninforecable due to being badly written. Things that are hard to delivering a class with clashing needs and some very costly provision. But costs are normally things like a child with cerebal palsy having a physio come to school to do an exercises, a salt coming in to help with communications and an ot with something else. not the parent fancies a pruprle desk with butterfly paperclips and an onsite spa.

It's about care needs, not diagnosis and those care needs need to be backed up by medical professionals. You can't just write whatever you like on the form and it is taken at face value. You need evidence
Because you believe a community paediatrician knows whether your child with adhd will wait next to you as you get from the car or potentially run in traffic? That they know that for a fact that your teenager is able or unable to get to school on the local bus? Appointments are 20minutes at best, 10mns most likely. They don't have the time to ascertain these needs, which are so circumstantial anyway, they could never make it factual. So yes, they base their assessment on what they are told. And no, they don't write systematically 'mum says that...' and even if they do, they wouldn't write that mum is wrong.

Professionals don't care if you apply for benefits or not. They give a diagnosis and yes, it is a fact that those diagnoses are in many ways just a case of ticking boxes. As my community paeds friend told me, you used to see young patients for an hour at a time and probably three or four times before you gave a diagnosis, one that parents dreaded and you had to comfort those parents. She says that nowadays, you are pressure to diagnose younger and younger kids in two, sometimes one appointment under 30 minutes, or which most can be spent trying to justify your expertise to parents who are angry when you don't come to a diagnosis. She left her he profession a while ago because she wasn't a clinician any longer but a benefit advisor pressured by parents to diagnose their kids asap.

She can pay for all the private diagnosis she wants it's not based on diagnosis, if no other professionals are backing her up she won't get a successful claim no matter what you say.

The increase in claims is mainly due to Covid - long Covid and the effects of lockdowns on a lot of people’s mental health.

i would also say that historically, a lot of people who claimed and were turned down did not then appeal. Social media has made people aware of their legal rights and has made them realise that they can appeal.

Because what you have just described about your friend isn't how DLA works..at all.

You aren't 'just approved' for DLA for a start.

They will speak to the school that sees the child six hours a day.

The increase isn’t just covid - the numbers have been climbing up since the 80s