Why does Oxbridge do this? Do you know any Students like this?

[janeeire244]

Why are there so many students at Oxbridge who study competitive degrees like law with relatively low A-level grades such as anything below 3A*s but also including AAA or even AAB? Most of these people applied with inflated predicted grades but are let in when they get lower grades than they were predicted either because they still met the really low entry requirements (shockingly Oxford Law is at AAA) or if they miss it and get AAB, they are reprieved?

I don’t even think it’s fair to say that they shone at some other stage of the application process because I know of some students who got relatively low admissions test scores or mediocre GCSEs and got in as well.

This is all the while they reject people with much high admissions test scores or much better grades.

That being said I’ve never heard of anyone who did poorly on the interviews get an offer (poorly by Oxbridge standards not just them thinking they did badly).

Do you know anyone at Oxbridge studying a degree (especially a competitive one like law) with an average admissions test score or below average; or less than 3A*s at A-level?

The relative subjectivity in marking for humanities means the difference between an A and an A may not really be significant. Also there's a lot of variation in how many people get an A depending on subject. With sciences that doesn't matter so much (everyone applying for a particular degree course will have taken more-or-less the same A-Levels) but with humanities people can have all sorts of A-Level combinations and that can make a big difference to the likelihood of them getting the top grade.

Plus if you're at a top private school a bit of personal tuition to bump you up from A to A* may not be a big deal, whereas someone might be applying with AAA from a comprehensive in a poor area and be the highest achieving student they've ever had.

A girl in my class got a two EEs offer, @CatkinToadflax, after a presumably stellar interview. It was seen as a way of Oxford signalling that they really wanted you, and you needn’t look elsewhere for a backup.

I am old enough to have incredibly bright friends who went to Oxford on offers of EEE.
Liz Truss is not from a disadvantaged background. She went to Roundhay School in Leeds but likes to pretend she had a poor start.

There is so much wrong with this that I don't know where to start.

Do you honestly believe that 'intelligence' is unequivocally reflected in exam results? You do know that many MANY super intelligent people do not thrive under exam conditions? You do know that many MANY people who get AAB are actually FAR more intelligent in terms of problem solving/critical thinking etc than someone who managed to 'remember everything' and get it down on a piece of paper? You do know that prestigious institutions are looking for fully rounded INTERESTING and INTERESTED candidates?

Do you also know that many big corporates now consider dyslexic thinking as a skill? Do you know that these same companies are more interested in how people present/interview/problem solve/show passion, than whether they can complete an exam in three hours?

You seem to have a very narrow view of intelligence.

EE Oxbridge offers were standard when they set their own entrance exam. If you'd done the exam then they gave EE offer if you were accepted. If was nothing to do with performing particularly well.

Another Oxbridge bashing thread from you.

Get a grip, get some therapy and move on at another institution. Your fixation on this is not doing you any good and repeated unsuccessful applications may actually hinder you.

(Applied to one of the two institutions at behest of others, got in. Actually not the best rated place for the course I did. Got top grades and I went elsewhere. Because the course was better and it was better suited to me. Everyone is different.)

Yes mum. Sorry mum. Will you be telling off everyone that does this mum?

Long time ago now but I did the Oxford entrance exam/interview and got a two Es offer. Which was handy because my A-levels were an utter disaster - parents split up, boyfriend troubles and crap teaching meant i ended up with only an A and a C plus general studies, and couldn’t have got in anywhere else.

But my o levels were great and I went on to get a first. So although they don’t have the same system now, I think there’s maybe still an element of recognising that there are other ways to demonstrate you have the right abilities/qualities, and a-level results aren’t everything.

OTOH even back then I met some very dim people at Oxford and you did wonder about what under-the-counter routes in there might be, like shoving the college a huge wad of cash.

So Oxbridge doesn’t want you. That much is obvious and you clearly can’t accept it and have become obsessed about it. You’re very young and you need to get over this and realise that it doesn’t matter. You can do well without going to either of these universities. There are more important things in life. But from your copious posts on the matter, you have a problem and you might want to talk to an adult about how to process your feelings around this.

In an unequal society like ours, all sorts of things need to be questioned. OP might be a bit too persistent in some people's view, but it's better that things are rigorously debated, than left to be just accepted, as has happened for so long.

It should cheer you, at least, @janeeire244 that no-one here thinks an Oxford education is the be-all-and-end-all and this attitude is likely to be reflected for you, post-education, when you enter the job market and big wide world. 😀

Oxbridge entrance has already been questioned and analysed. A lot. Hence all the moves towards contextualised offers, outreach programmes etc.

I would assume that was taken as a username long ago, hence deliberate changing of the spelling.

Reader, it was.

Liz Truss's dad was a Cambridge grad and a research fellow at Oxford. SUCH humble beginnings! Plus, never cite LT if you want to sound remotely intelligent.

OP you are bitter and need to let it go. If this is how you handle unfairness, perceived or real, then your life will be miserable.

@janeeire244 So really your just pissed off that other people with ‘lesser’ grades’ have got a place and you haven’t
there are other unis you know

Absolutely, ultimately despite doing well I think I would have fitted in better and been happier somewhere else. It also depends a lot on the subject and what you want to do as a career. English or PPE degree from Oxford for example will open some doors / impress some people but there are other universities that are strong in particular subjects or have specialist departments.

Why fixate on Oxbridge? When you look at the likes of Johnson and Truss you realise that an Oxbridge degree is no guarantee of basic intelligence. My nephew got a First in History at Oxford and was begged to stay for postgraduate study, but decided to go to St Andrew's because he wasn't that impressed with the teaching at Oxford.

When I was doing solicitors' exams, it was noticeable that Oxbridge candidates struggled because the way they had been taught simply didn't prepare them. When I was later involved in law firm recruitment it was no advantage to have been at Oxbridge, because we found candidates who came straight from Oxbridge needed a disproportionate amount of training and help in basic practicalities. We tended to rate Bristol, LSE and other London colleges and Durham far higher.

What's 'Saltburn'?

OP, as others have said, the Oxford entry process today is entirely focussed on the applicant’s passion for, and aptitude in, the particular subject for which they are applying. I do not believe they place any weight on predicted grades - they do though take actual achieved GCSEs into account in a way which measures candidates relative to what could be expected from a person in their school setting. Someone scoring all 8s and 9s would therefore get a higher score on this than someone scoring all 7s, unless that person was from a relatively poor performing area and school.

They then also use submitted work (for arts subjects) and a usually very tough admissions test to decide who to interview (with some discretion in the process to identify students with potential but who may have had less good schooling/opportunities so not done as well in the tests). The interview itself is solely based on assessing how students work and think in the subject they have applied for. So my DC’s three physics interviews all consisted entirely of working through a series of maths and physics problems.

The process means that, despite the seemingly lower offer criteria than might be expected, nearly half of all applicants do actually achieve 3 x A star or higher. You need to look at the bigger picture - not just the entry requirement, but the achievements of the actual cohort. See image below from the 2024 Oxford report for what I mean:

Because they did better on that one test on that one day does not make someone more intelligent.

You talk like you’d look down on people you perceive to be in lesser professions.

Exams aren't a good measure of intelligence. Exams are a measure of how well someone knows how to pass exams. Often, they're also a measure of how good teaching that child has access to, which has nothing to do with innate intelligence.

The interviewers are very very smart people, and they are looking to see real intelligence - not the ability to remember facts and regurgitate them in an exam setting (which, let's be honest, is the reality of many exams at school level)

Colleges are trying to select a cohort each year that is teachable, curious and will also gel with each other. College life is intense, so personalities matter as well as grades. Combative, irritable and contrary people don’t make great staircase mates or supervision/lab partners.

@janeeire244 you need to let this go. You didn’t apply. If you had applied you may not have got in anyway. Many good applicants are turned away because they aren’t suitable or there’s just no space.

Given the level of obsessiveness you keep displaying, please seek some help. This is not healthy.