Why does Oxbridge do this? Do you know any Students like this?

[janeeire244]

Why are there so many students at Oxbridge who study competitive degrees like law with relatively low A-level grades such as anything below 3A*s but also including AAA or even AAB? Most of these people applied with inflated predicted grades but are let in when they get lower grades than they were predicted either because they still met the really low entry requirements (shockingly Oxford Law is at AAA) or if they miss it and get AAB, they are reprieved?

I don’t even think it’s fair to say that they shone at some other stage of the application process because I know of some students who got relatively low admissions test scores or mediocre GCSEs and got in as well.

This is all the while they reject people with much high admissions test scores or much better grades.

That being said I’ve never heard of anyone who did poorly on the interviews get an offer (poorly by Oxbridge standards not just them thinking they did badly).

Do you know anyone at Oxbridge studying a degree (especially a competitive one like law) with an average admissions test score or below average; or less than 3A*s at A-level?

Grades and admissions tests aren’t everything and that’s for the best. From experience the most intelligent, well rounded people aren’t those with straight A stars! To be frank many of them are just human robots who perform well at exams. DD has about 10 friends at Oxbridge - none of them got 3 A*s at A level however they all are incredibly passionate about their subjects, had years of experience in relevant extra-curricular activities and obviously shone at interview.

Your post is quite strange OP - almost a bit of a jealous tone to it!

OP, you've posted this same rant at least three times before. I didn't even need to read the full thing to the bottom or check your username to know it was you. Are you pretending to be your mum again or yourself this time?

I don't know what you're hoping for people to say that's any different to last time. I suggest you get a grip and move on.

If I remember correctly, you didn't even apply to Oxbridge. You're envious and yet haven't done a single thing to help your own position. Seriously, this obsession is unhealthy.

I’m not familiar with the admission process, but i think it’s unfair to push students to get high grades only for them to discover that grades don’t matter after all. The entry requirements need to be fair and transparent otherwise it’s just a demoralising process where students feel confused and disempowered.

As a teacher who has worked in multiple schools from which pupils leave and go to oxbridge i am very confused by this post?

The only pupils who don't get exceptional A Level grades and are offered a place have had incredible interview feedback plus fantastic entry test scores, rarely there are extraordinary circumstances to explain underperformance (things like illness/family bereavement or other mitigating circumstances) but ALL have had exceptional references from the school.
There is no point in college's making offers to pupils they don't believe will thrive on those courses.

Oxbridge colleges have also made changes to ensure admission criteria and process is very transparent now

Do you have a specific incident you want to talk about?

Yes. My son. I'm a single parent, low income, son went to a bog standard comprehensive school which only has a few Oxbridge entrants per year, sometimes none. He was the only one from his school year that got a place.
His A level results were AstarAAA and his offer from Oxford was for AAA.
Oxford offers range between 3As and 3 A stars. Their selection process takes account of much more than just A level grades because they know that grades are only one indication of a person's academic ability and potential.

They look at GCSE grades, the context in which they were taken (type of school, school's past performance in GCSE/A levels, that type of thing ). Applicants have to submit course work (my son had to submit two pieces of marked course work so they could assess both his work and how well his teachers were marking it, to see what sort of teaching he was getting).
Then applicants have to sit a subject-specific entrance exam and if you don't do well enough in that you won't be invited for interview, irrespective of how great your A level results or predicted results are.

And finally, the interviews. My son had two interviews, some have one, but it can be more. One of his friends had to go through five interviews. If you get that far, the interviews are what makes an applicant stand out, because what people forget is that there are around 23,000 applicants for about 3000 places each year at Oxford, and every one of those is going to have top A levels either in hand or predicted. So in that context, simply having 3 or 4 A* just isn't that special.

Oxford are looking for students who are really passionate about their subject and can think, argue, question, push boundaries etc. You have to be a certain type of student to enjoy and do well there, I'd say. And that can't be measured by just exam results. I think its a very rigorous and fair selection process.

Grades DO matter. They're just not the only thing that matters. As you said, you're not familiar with the admissions process. It's very different to most other universities.

I hope your son has an amazing experience, @Pandimoanymum. He's certainly earnt his place!

Fair enough, I think I’m still a bit burnt after finding out about the Scottish postcode admissions policy so I’m venting

Thank you, he's absolutely loving it. He's made a great bunch of friends and it's nothing like the dreadful snooty place that Saltburn made it out to be- I'm sure that film set back Oxford's attempts at widening participation by decades 😂

Oh yeah, I know a bit about that, I can understand where you're coming from.

AAA are not “shockingly” low grades, you big daftie 😂😂😂😂😂

Oh grow up. Anyone applying for oxbridge is bright anyway and those offered places have good grades and other things on their application. I say this as a recruitment partner at a city law firm who doesn’t have any oxbridge bias but sees a lot of CVs.

It's because the interview is by far the most important part of admissions. It was the case when I went years ago, and is still the case today.

Every year you get the daft tabloid 'student with 6 A*s rejected from Oxford' 'shock' headline.

Well, the first step those people took was to apply. That usually helps with the process.

I think you need to consider counselling about this, if it's still bothering you so nuch after so long. There is more to life than Oxbridge.

My DC had A star, A star, AA (four ‘A’ levels) and an A star EPQ, standard state comprehensive school, standard state sixth form college, single parent. A three-night stay and was interviewed by several colleges, with on-the-spot tasks during the interviews.

Put simply, an AAA student with no outside interests is inferior to an AAB student who is captain of the rugby team, and it's not even close.

@janeeire244 oh my gosh, the amount of strange posts you’ve made about oxbridge is actually concerning.

Please seek help for your mental health. This is really not normal behaviour.

It is transparent. Oxbridge Admissions departments are very open that they consider all areas of the application together. In a recent talk from the Oxford English department they explicitly said that one reason for two interviews is to allow for things to go wrong

The issue with this approach is that it favours those with access to better schools, tutoring etc who will inevitably perform better at interviews. For many (and particularly for children of immigrant parents whose first language may not be English so learn all their interview and oral skills at schools), the academic grades are the only leveller and the only thing they can improve on without heavy input from others/ continuous exposure to well spoken adults.

20 years ago I rocked up to my Oxford interview having not had any practice interview- no one, not my teachers or parents, told me you had to practice for an interview (I was the only person who applied to Oxbridge from my school- not sure if any student had ever previously applied). No one told me what to expect in an Oxford interview. I was coming in completely blind. The thing is once I arrived to the interview residence, I just knew wouldn’t get in. Speaking to other students, I had better grades than them, having taken 6 AS levels thinking it would help, but they were just so much better spoken and able to express thoughts and ideas lucidly. My exposure to English language and expression was as good as you would expect from someone who had mainly learnt to speak English from working class peers in a deprived state school !

Thats to say, focusing on Interview skills and speaking proficiency will always favour privately educated and/or wealthier students living in more affluent areas.

Oxbridge admissions tutors are much more aware of this now, and the style of interview has changed hugely to try and mitigate this

How has it changed? Genuinely interested.

Haha, 'relatively low A Level grades' = AAA. I hope you don't do statistics or maths.

Ridiculous goady post. Reported.

My daughter’s best friend didn’t meet her A level predictions and missed her Oxford offer. However Oxford took her anyway. She went on to get a 1st class degree and now works advising the govt on policy, she’s doing amazing for someone in her early 20s. So Oxford must still have been happy with her overall that they wanted her to still come. I would trust them with their vast experience, to know what students will do well with them.

Well for a start the English admissions person told us that it isn’t just the interview. There’s also the essays and the entrance exam as well as the application. None of them is more important than the other.
People over think it in many many ways. Pretty much every one invited to interview is ‘good enough’ for Oxbridge. And they want teachable people. It’s similar reasoning for some graduate programmes taking people with a 2:1 more than people with a first. They are interested in the person.

Law is AAA. The LNAT cut off is higher and they traditionally weight the essay section more heavily than other institutions. 31% of applicants get interviewed; 10% are successful. If a student gets an offer, they have earned their place in my eyes.

Students who then don't go on to get top grades but still get AAA could have done so for a raft of reasons - bereavement; illness; teacher absence; school context; simply finding the pressure of A Levels too much.

Do you have a source for how many students got in on AAB, other than those who faced significant mitigating circumstances, or those who progressed via the foundation degrees (which are for students from underrepresented backgrounds).