If you have a disability and work/want to work

[Glassesofmilk]

What support and adjustments do you have/would you need?

Im reading so much about cuts to welfare, plans to make PIP harder to claim but don’t see much about what support would be needed because employers are going to need to make a lot of adjustments and colleagues of disabled people are going to need to be understanding (I see a lot of threads about how someone has more breaks etc or has time off and everyone resents them as they get paid the same for less hours/work?)

Will the government be consulting with employers and making changes to offer more protection and support to those who are pushed back to work and may struggle? Maybe things like more sickness / holiday allowance for those with disabilities or a different type of leave they can access if experience a flare up of a condition? Appointments for medical issues due to disability or MH covered in the same way antenatal appts are?

Flexibility is one key component of helping people with disabilities (or other issues for that matter) work but easier said than done.

You have to remember that employers hire staff to fulfil a role and need that workload done at a time when the business needs it so there's always going to be some conflict between flexible working around medical needs and what the employer needs, good employers can often be able to accommodate but I do recognise the mismatch in a world where there's other suitably qualified potential employees (being honest) and explains why you are more likely to encounter people with complex disabilities in senior roles often, because they have specific skills that the employer needs and are willing to make those adjustments to get that person, far harder to persuade employers at entry level.

I have volunteers at work with disabilities and we work with them to give them real world experience with the hope they can use the skills they gain to get paid work however with the group I work with I can't see that happening as they need constant support and encouragement to fulfill the tasks (waiting tables at a charity project). I see it from both sides perhaps but as disabilities are so varied there is no one size fits all solution

I'd love to be able to make it work in practice. Some of the issues raised by PP are much less likely to happen at my work - we have three lifts in the building, ,several accessible toilets for instance and an evacuation plan for anybody who permanently or temporarily can't manage stairs. Making adjustments for someone with limited eyesight or hearing are relatively straightforward - usually adjusting equipment or buying something different (eg so they know the fire alarm has gone off).

But to accommodate someone with fluctuating activity levels would require an increase in staffing to ensure the cover is always there whether they make it to work or not. And there isn't the funding/income to run at that staffing level (public sector!).

I can work because I wfh and my tasks are spread out over 10-15 days. There are few set hours and generally those set hours which are in place I can manage even if I am in bed. As long as I deliver on my tasks within the ten days I can work as and when I am able to. I outperform many of my colleagues. I have only had a handful of times off for major injuries. More minor ailments I can rearrange my work around but if I had to commute to an office they would flatten me. We need more jobs available like mine.

Quite a few disabled people use a wheelchair but are otherwise reasonably "well" for want of a better word.

Getting around by public transport is a fucking nightmare with a wheelchair - the buses near me say "we try to use wheelchair accessible buses where possible" which means you never know until it turns up whether you can get on it or not.

I live in a small town with an unmanned train station and you can book someone to turn up with a ramp so you can use the train but you have to pre book and they only offer this service 8am-8pm and if they're busy already they'll refuse your booking.

Before I got much iller I did several interviews for a new job. When I made clear I used a wheelchair and that I'd need a lift (if necessary) and a disabled toilet the reaction was normally a polite version of "we'd find that very difficult".

I never got any of those jobs.

Can't imagine why.

I've found that if you're actually in a job it's easier to get adjustments as a company with half decent HR will follow the law, even it's to the letter.

Getting the job in the first place especially at lower/entry levels is harder.

That's just my experience and what I've seen.

I'm surprised you don't feel you've heard the government talk about support needed for people with disabilities as Liz Kendall, who is the minister responsible for the DWP, has been discussing this consistently since the election.

There was a statement on Thursday on the topic:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-bolsters-employment-support-to-unlock-work-for-sick-and-disabled-people

Worth nothing that PIP is not an out of work benefit.

It would have made sense to get support etc firmly in place before making any decisions about cuts.

That also seems to only mention about work coaches. The focus needs to be on employers not work coaches pushing people into employment to meet their targets which will turn out to be unsuitable. I don’t see anything about real support at employment level only ticking that box of getting someone into work regardless of anything else ?

There hasn't been any decision on cuts to my knowledge. I wanted to share that support is very much something the government is talking about. You are, of course, free to disagree with the approach but it is being discussed and action taken.

I have a rare connective tissue auto immune disease, diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis and another auto immune disease and just been diagnosed with moderate hearing loss. I also suffer with chronic insomnia due to nocturnal hypo's and pain from the auto immune disease.

I work full time, am now remote working, have changed my hours so I start very early and finish early while still working my contracted hours (its flexi working so easy to change start and finish times). I have also now been removed from public phone shifts due to the hearing loss.

Luckily I work for local government and they are so flexible when you have health issues and refer you to OT to ensure the way your working is suitable for your health issues.
When I started my job 6 years ago I only had diabetes and the other issues I developed and were diagnosed with were during COVID.

I was told to claim PIP after the hearing loss diagnosis, but nope wont be doing that as do not need it, can care for myself and need no help and my job has everything in place to make my work day easy.

I'd need to be able to WFH (not "come into the office once a week / once a month / as and when we need you" like most remote jobs want). I'd also need them to be incredibly understanding about the fact that at a moment's notice, I may need to be away from my workstation and can't guarantee how long I'd be away for.

Probably why I'm on LCWRA.

It will not work in all settings. In the NHS there are many teams it would not work for but in therapies we are not templated for sale staging in quite the same way. I was thinking more broadly with roles that can be worked from home or where there is a job to be done without quite the same time limitations as other jobs

The difficulty is that 'disability' can mean a huge number of different things. People who are neurodiverse for example, aren't going to have the same needs as someone with a physical disability.

Disability isn't a helpful term, and perhaps it needs to be broken down more.

I think it's really a case of finding the right type of job for the individual condition. When I was a student I used to work at Tesco and there were a number of people with learning disabilities who were really happy to be working there, and my employer made the effort to recruit and accommodate them. However, this type of role wouldn't suit somebody in a wheelchair, who would probably need a desk job.

I think employers need to have a more flexible approach generally. The drive to pull people back into the office where it’s not necessary is unhelpful for people with disabilities and their carers. The 9-5 culture isn’t helpful either, again where it isn’t necessary.

I don’t have disabilities but am a carer for two children with complex needs. I’ve been able to stay in work and progress my career by having very flexible employers who understand the demands of caring and are happy with me doing my work when I can as long as I meet deadlines. I have a few fixed obligations which I work very hard to meet, which is possible because I can flex everything else. Without that I would need to stop working because I couldn’t meet my caring duties even though I’m very capable at my job and could easily work around caring for my kids.

It also requires colleagues to have a degree of understanding and not be moaning when someone needs flexibility. People with disabilities and/or caring responsibilities are more likely to live in poverty and some of that is due to employers not supporting where they can, making the workplace inaccessible.

From what you have written here, it sounds like you would not have been successful even if you had tried to claim anyway.

I think this is a key issue really. There are disabled people whose conditions dont fluctuate, but there are an awful lot who do have fluctuating conditions. People see them on good days and say why can't you work around that, but realistically there aren't hundreds of jobs out there that don't need work doing to some sort of schedule or time frame.

There will be some, I'm sure but not in the numbers required.

Part time works a bit, especially if it's flexible when you take your time off.

But I think employers would need massive incentives to accommodate this kind of thing as you'd need capacity in your teams to pick up work.

I want to be able to WFH full time. I don't understand this drive in the CS to get everyone back to the office.. is it to force people out and reduce staff numbers??

That would be ideal but how could it work with meetings etc? Operationally it would be challenging to swap days out for unscheduled days

I will say that my former employers were great with supporting disabled staff, including recommending staff contact 'access to work' to obtain professional advice on equipment, working methods etc. Spent thousands on chairs, software, specialist equipment ... why wouldn't an employer want the best for all employees so they can thrive at work. They were also very content to let people vary hours, buy additional holidays etc.

That would be ideal but how could it work with meetings etc? Operationally it would be challenging to swap days out for unscheduled days

If you could ring fence times for meetings, and keep those meetings to a minimum you can create enough flexibility around those fixed points in the week. And maybe the world won’t end if someone occasionally doesn’t attend a meeting.

I have ME/CFS too and had shorter hours, close parking etc but it was still too much. This was before WFH was more the norm. I often couldn’t manage my actual work because of the brain fog. I couldn’t take things in or work things out without significant payback and confusion. It meant I ended up crap at my job. I specifically hate that side of things. I was (am?) relatively intelligent but it made me feel like I’d lost who I was and what I was capable of. It’s soul destroying.

I honestly don’t know what, if any, reasonable adjustments would work for me because it’s so unpredictable and I’m often incapable of basic cognitive tasks.

@HÆLTHEPAIN I'm so sorry. It is a brutal illness and I'm the 'lucky' minority that can work. I get brain fog where I often forget what I'm talking about in meetings which is embarrassing but I generally cope.

I was very pleased to see Sally Callow of Stripey Lightbulb get in on the government consultation. Fluctuation illness and energy limiting illnesses like MEcfs, fibro and long covid are very badly understood and very poorly supported medically.

A topic close to my heart!

What would have helped me was flexibility when recording my disability-related sickness absences.

I repeatedly asked my old employer for reasonable adjustments in relation to these (ACAS has listed several options on their website). However my request was refused each time with no reason given.

I was then dismissed under their capability procedure for my disability-related absences. I did not have very many absences, if I am being honest. I worked in the private sector, and their sickness and absence policy was harsh, especially when my disability-related absences were used as a stick to beat me with (under the sickness and absence policy.)

My adjustments are
WFH
Able to log off and take painkillers and wait for them to work (have to make the time back)
Extra toilet breaks
If off sick with my periods it doesn't trigger any sickness meetings

These measures are not the right idea in my opinion. All the burden back onto disabled people for us to have coaching to make us "more employable". The reasons I may be considered "less employable" are all because I am multiply disabled, which I can't be coached out of. I am, in fact, highly skilled and qualified. The problem is with employers and infrastructure and everything else outlined on this thread.
My problem is that there isn't a support option for "could work in a skilled job but not enough hours to support themself", which is going to be the case for me in the future.