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Thread 19 Starmer - A Coalition of the Willing

1000 replies

DuncinToffee · 03/03/2025 08:25

.https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5276594-thread-18-starmer-all-sides-of-the-house-agree-apart-from-the-trump-bootlickers?page=40&reply=142583752

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BIossomtoes · 18/03/2025 17:03

Dark day. The only consolation as far as I can see is that people with conditions that will never improve won’t have to be reassessed. I’m so depressed by this.

InterestQ · 18/03/2025 17:11

I feel like Labour never got the “tax the rich” memo? And I didn’t mean raise employers’ NI so that charities and small businesses go under.

Tax profitability! What’s wrong with them? Just shove a couple of percent on additional rate tax, make second homes pay more council tax, raise the tax free threshold to £18k and sort out the immigration issues that cost us the most and bring the least benefit.

SerendipityJane · 18/03/2025 17:11

Bagpussnotbothered · 18/03/2025 16:56

I'm still trying to understand the changes. Have I got this right?

  • If you are on PiP or a disability benefit now, nothing changes
  • If you claim it in the future, you need to show more extensive sickness or disability, and it's closer in cash to what a standard jobseeker gets.
  • There will be lifetime awards for the most disabled
  • You can try work without losing benefits (I do agree with this as it was an active barrier, especially if your confidence is low to begin with)

If the Government is determined to get more people into work, it needs to urgently fund CAHMS and mental health services. Is there any sign of this happening?

Put like there, there is some up with the down ...

A permanent award (for example for someone with progressive MS) is a definite improvement. (And removing the need for reassessments is in itself a saving). This is where that magic "AI" could be used to process exsiting records to ensure that decisions are consistent with diagnosis (because you can make a lot of money if you bet on £1 for every case where they are bungled).

Also the "try before you sign off" policy is a definite improvement.

How these are put into action will of course be the ultimate test.

If we had a fit-for-purpose benefits and taxation system (we don't, despte spendng enough to but Greenland several times over on both) then the idea of having a lower tax rate for someone disabled, but in work, could be a thing.

However I am old enough to know that government in the UK really is the "look at this hammer we have" as every problem has to be a nail.

Notonthestairs · 18/03/2025 17:37

Just picking my way through the proposals, trying to work out what it will mean for my child's future. Pleased to see the lifetime awards. But genuinely dont understand the targeting of PiP claimants - seems solely intended to save money rather than improve outcomes.

placemats · 18/03/2025 17:48

"Pleased to see the lifetime awards. But genuinely dont understand the targeting of PiP claimants - seems solely intended to save money rather improve outcomes."

This is my basic conclusion as well @Notonthestairs regarding PIP. I'm not sure it should be described as an award though - it's a basic necessity.

Notonthestairs · 18/03/2025 17:53

You are right, the language jars.
My brain is a bit frazzled trying to work things through.

SerendipityJane · 18/03/2025 17:57

Notonthestairs · 18/03/2025 17:37

Just picking my way through the proposals, trying to work out what it will mean for my child's future. Pleased to see the lifetime awards. But genuinely dont understand the targeting of PiP claimants - seems solely intended to save money rather than improve outcomes.

PIP (the artiasts formerly known as DLA) is a gateway award. Once you have it (especially the higher rate mobility component) it unlocks further benefits.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj924xvzrr2o

says "When Pip was introduced in 2013, the aim was to save £1.4bn a year by reducing the number of people eligible for payments"

However my memory is that the Tories rebutted that as a motivation and blitzed the media saying it was intended to better support the less able.

Are we being gaslit ?

Close up shot of a person looking at bills and receipts on a table next to a calculator in their kitchen. They are wearing a blue jumper and the kitchen sink is in the background.

What are the Pip and universal credit changes and who will be affected?

The government says changes to the welfare system will save £5bn and get people into work.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj924xvzrr2o

PandoraSox · 18/03/2025 18:11
  • If you are on PiP or a disability benefit now, nothing changes

Not until your next reassessment. At that point you could lose money depending on PIP scores.

  • If you claim it in the future, you need to show more extensive sickness or disability, and it's closer in cash to what a standard jobseeker gets.

Sort of. There are big changes to contribution based ESA, which are not favourable. There are also changes to how the disability elements of UC will be awarded. Basically this will depend on PIP entitlement. Which is going to be more difficult to get.

  • There will be lifetime awards for the most disabled

It seems so. But those lifetime awards for will be harder to get due to changes in scoring for PIP.

  • You can try work without losing benefits (I do agree with this as it was an active barrier, especially if your confidence is low to begin with)

Yes.

This is my understanding, but I need to read the green paper closely.

PandoraSox · 18/03/2025 18:14

SerendipityJane · 18/03/2025 17:11

Put like there, there is some up with the down ...

A permanent award (for example for someone with progressive MS) is a definite improvement. (And removing the need for reassessments is in itself a saving). This is where that magic "AI" could be used to process exsiting records to ensure that decisions are consistent with diagnosis (because you can make a lot of money if you bet on £1 for every case where they are bungled).

Also the "try before you sign off" policy is a definite improvement.

How these are put into action will of course be the ultimate test.

If we had a fit-for-purpose benefits and taxation system (we don't, despte spendng enough to but Greenland several times over on both) then the idea of having a lower tax rate for someone disabled, but in work, could be a thing.

However I am old enough to know that government in the UK really is the "look at this hammer we have" as every problem has to be a nail.

This is where that magic "AI" could be used to process exsiting records to ensure that decisions are consistent with diagnosis (because you can make a lot of money if you bet on £1 for every case where they are bungled)

PIP and ESA are not awarded by diagnosis, but by how individuals are affected by their condition. Which could be tricky for AI.

PandoraSox · 18/03/2025 18:17

Basically it is all absolutely shit for disabled people and most of what was speculated about is being proposed.

placemats · 18/03/2025 18:25

I keep hearing Neil Kinnock's phrase 'A Labour council, a Labour council' speech over and over in my head. Going about in hired taxis handing out redundancy notices to it's own workers - Liverpool. Shameful that this government is emulating them.

Llttledrummergirl · 18/03/2025 18:45

I will be interested (selfishly) to see how thos affects my relative. There is not a chance in hell they are going to get better.

LlynTegid · 18/03/2025 18:53

InterestQ · 18/03/2025 17:11

I feel like Labour never got the “tax the rich” memo? And I didn’t mean raise employers’ NI so that charities and small businesses go under.

Tax profitability! What’s wrong with them? Just shove a couple of percent on additional rate tax, make second homes pay more council tax, raise the tax free threshold to £18k and sort out the immigration issues that cost us the most and bring the least benefit.

Take away a lot of exemptions might generate income.

placemats · 18/03/2025 19:08

Structural health care would collapse instantly without immigration and those immigrants contribute to the treasury and support those indirectly who require help and assistance, a basic tenet of a civilised society, which is what we are. Collectively.

Tax avoiders couldn't give a shit.

placemats · 18/03/2025 19:11

Tax avoidance should be made a criminal offence and assets stripped on being found guilty. Just like tax evasion.

itsgettingweird · 18/03/2025 20:03

BIossomtoes · 18/03/2025 17:03

Dark day. The only consolation as far as I can see is that people with conditions that will never improve won’t have to be reassessed. I’m so depressed by this.

Oh I missed that bit.

although they can give indefinite awards now they tend not to. My da has a degenerative genetic neurological condition and autism.

he ain’t getting better! He’s been getting worse since he was 8!!!!

ThatbloodyRoblox · 18/03/2025 21:12

Still wading through the green paper!
I completely agree with longer/ lifetime awards- it is just shit that people have to go through regular reassessment to say “ my leg hasn’t grown back etc..”
Completely agree with try work and if you can’t manage you don’t have to reapply for your benefits- massive barrier.
Concerned about the 4 points DL that has been mentioned ( I haven’t read far enough to check this) THIS, if true will be a real difficulty to some in receipt of PIP. Many of the PIP forms I fill are made up of 2’s. Is the appeal process going to be the same? We will just be even further backed up with PIP appeals. Many of the decisions are overturned at tribunal.
The no LCWRA for under 22- I need to read this properly but I guess this could go to appeal somehow. Although the under 25 rate of UC remains unchanged.
My overall feelings about reforming any out of work benefit including sickness and disability are that it isn’t a money saving exercise, it is a money spending exercise that works with employers and services ( they have to be on board and that costs ££s) and the focus is on the value of people.
I hate stick/ carrot shit. ☹️
The gains from actual real support to get sick ( not hounding those that are truly unable to work due to severe disabilities ) won’t be seen for 10-15 years.
no gov is interested in that level of support. Therefore we will keep seeing the “ drives a BMW and gets their nails done every week” posts.
I do think the standard element of UC / JSA needs raising though as many this applies to may only be out of work a relatively short time but could end up in huge amounts of debt with mortgage/ car payments etc in just a month or so.

InMySpareTime · 18/03/2025 22:04

I think the waiting period for UC needs looking at (not that it’s anything to do with today’s stuff).
even just rewording to reflect different pay frequency.
if the initial waiting period was equal to the time between pay packets in the job you last had, that would save people having to make a week’s final pay packet last a month.
a lot of people aren’t paid monthly.

Llttledrummergirl · 18/03/2025 22:53

My relative has downs and will never not have it. They are incredibly vulnerable and unable to communicate verbally, but up until the last few years was otherwise fit well and active. They have never been able to work, one of those drains on the countries resources.

They receive mid level allowance as could do most tasks- it might take an hour to toast and butter bread, but they can do this. Beans on toast, absolutely not, but a scotch egg is a meal right? As long as someone else shops for it, and ensures it's in date.

The last reassessment was potentially fun, they wanted an in person review until the GP intervened so to not have any further assessments will be fun.

I have always struggled to understand how someone who for their whole life has needed a safe person with them 24/7 is judged as needing mid level disability allowance- while their carer has also been prevented from claiming carers allowance and holding down a part time job for their own self worth (tried, earned £5 more one week,£5 less the next, were assessed over a 5 week period starting on the higher week so had to repay the carers allowance), and on becoming a pensioner, lost carers altogether. They still do the caring, just don't receive anything for it- and others are able to claim it despite being able to work part-time, stay in a house alone, leave a house alone, prepare a decent meal, wash, dress themselves etc.

I looked at the criteria today for the first time, and was amazed at the lack of thought that has gone into them. I'm amazed that are you safe to be alone isn't one of them.

Llttledrummergirl · 18/03/2025 22:53

Sorry, that was a rant.

PickAChew · 18/03/2025 23:14

It's all rather topsy turvy, @Llttledrummergirl -it sounds like they're getting DLA if on the mid rate?

I found the daily living descriptors far more appropriate for the boys than the care component of DLA. Even more the mobility component that wasn't dependent on how well they slept.

Your relative should score at least 4 points for preparing food on the PIP descriptors. Having someone ensure that they have everything they need in place, (or simply needing that, even if it didn't happen) counts as assistance.

Thread 19 Starmer - A Coalition of the Willing
Alexandra2001 · 19/03/2025 07:09

placemats · 18/03/2025 19:11

Tax avoidance should be made a criminal offence and assets stripped on being found guilty. Just like tax evasion.

Avoidance is using legal loopholes to minimise tax, often these only really benefit the wealthy, as they proportionately save far far more in tax than say someone with 3k in a cash ISA, whilst they have £500k in ISA's

These should be capped, say a life time ISA allowance of 100k... maybe more if invested in UK.

I wonder how much in ISA wrap has Liz Kendal or Reeves? when you re extremely wealthy, its difficult to relate to people who have nothing.

But perhaps for electoral reasons, Welfare "reform" is deemed the priority.

These reforms also don't seem to have any extra "Job Creation" element, a lot of people have been out of work for a long time, they are a big risk for any employer, where are the schemes to get them back into the work habit? if they can work of course.

RafaistheKingofClay · 19/03/2025 08:25

Notonthestairs · 18/03/2025 17:37

Just picking my way through the proposals, trying to work out what it will mean for my child's future. Pleased to see the lifetime awards. But genuinely dont understand the targeting of PiP claimants - seems solely intended to save money rather than improve outcomes.

The whole thing is just to meet Reeves’s stupid fiscal rules. Just change the bloody rules. Or put a small tax on wealth over £10million. That would create more than the money this is designed to save (but won’t).

DuncinToffee · 19/03/2025 09:31

https://news.sky.com/story/labour-created-the-welfare-state-now-its-intent-on-cutting-it-back-13331673

Labour created the welfare state. Now, it's intent on cutting it back

While Labour talked about welfare reform in its manifesto, it never signalled it would make these sorts of cuts. But the environment has changed, and in Liz Kendall, the government has a minister comfortable going harder on benefits than the Tories had.

OP posts:
DuncinToffee · 19/03/2025 09:33

Liz Kendall confronted by furious Labour MPs over DWP cuts - "show more compassion”

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/liz-kendall-confronted-furious-labour-34883908

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