Thread 19 Starmer - A Coalition of the Willing

[DuncinToffee]

.https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5276594-thread-18-starmer-all-sides-of-the-house-agree-apart-from-the-trump-bootlickers?page=40&reply=142583752

previous thread

That statement from the TUC is baffling. PIP is a benefit that people in "good quality work" (whatever that is) already may have. Having PIP doesn't exclude you from work.

What would a triumph have looked like for you @Rummly ?

.

@Rummly It certainly was not a failure either given the circumstances!
We don't know the half of what goes on in
behind the scenes negotiations.
In Sir Keir's professional life he was a highly skilled, methodical lawyer, shaped by International rules and as such his experience matters more than ever
in today's world.

I don't think it is as it acknowledges that people on PIP can be in work? The statement says that PIP can help people access work (by meeting extra expenses, I assume is what is meant) and not have to rely on out of work benefits.

The government however seems to be conflating PIP with being out of work (deliberately? I am not sure), and so does the general public.

I am glad the TUC has spoken up.

The number of threads on this very site from posters of dubious intentions touting their studied ignorance around PIP is frightening.

PIP is the only benefit which attempts to prevent disability being a personal tax. It's existence is a tiny proof that the system does not believe people are disabled because they deserve it.

Remove it, or make it means tested, and you are basically saying "Oi you - the disabled twat. Do you need extra money to pay for all the extra laundry you need because of your disability ? Well that's God judgement on you for being a sinner. Now suck it up while we make sure you can't be seen on our streets".

(Go on - I dare you. I double dare you. )

When we lived in London my DH would occasionally be stopped by weirdo God botherers telling him that he must have done something wrong in God's eyes. Also the occasional guff that he must have done something bad in a past life.

BTW, DH phoned the DWP the other day and there was a prerecorded message saying that PIP has not changed and no decisions about changing it have been made. There must be swathes of worried disabled people contacting DWP.

It's not just the disabled though. That attitude bleeds into a tacit view that anyone unfortunate must have deserved it.

It's funny how if you were to press a proper Christian over the notion of karma, past lives and an eternal spiritual cycle you would be shot down as a heretic, or at the very least someone who failed to get the plot of the bible.

Yet somehow "Christian" values are allowed to support the idea that someone born with a disability must have "deserved" it through some theology that is far too advanced for my little brain.

This would all be so much froth. But it is still driving huge masses of political discourse where there is a horror of charity because it is seen as enabling the weak. And we all know that can't happen.

Maybe I was on different threads/read/watch different media or whatever, but I don’t remember anyone ‘trumpeting’ it as a ‘triumph’. People said he’d done well. Which he had.

I think that the clever political workaround is to say that we need to defend "Judeo-Christian values". Because that gives you leeway to decide what the "judeo-christian values" are that need defending without any awkward questions about what actual Christianity requires. You don't need to believe the meek shall inherit the earth. Just that its important for the functioning of society that other people believe in it. (You can believe this AND that empathy is toxic). This gives you a sense of being much cleverer than everyone else and exactly the sort of person who should be in charge on account of having read but not understood Nietsche.

Fair play to you, you never miss a chance to have a go at Labour and or Starmer... that always seems to be your "point"

He could easily have "blown it" and no not all PMs would have done the same, you're also ignoring the fact that Starmer has endured a great deal of criticism over his leadership from your side of politics/media.

The Steel/Aluminum tariffs are universal, no one is avoiding them, dealing with Trump is extremely difficult and like most of the things DT has done, it could easily be changed at a moments notice.

Davey asked Starmer about the tariffs

Keir Starmer says UK will take “pragmatic approach” to US steel tariffs - & doesn’t rule out retaliatory tariffs.

“We will take a pragmatic approach. We are negotiating an economic deal which covers and will include tariffs if we succeed, but we will keep all options on the table.” #PMQs

Davey also asked about the benefit system

Keir Starmer, asked about his planned welfare reforms, tells MPs the system is broken.

“It is indefensible, economically and morally, and we must and we will reform it.”

PM says govt “will protect those who need protecting” but also “support those who can” back to work. #PMQs

Well said Richard Burgon for that question and I'm sure he's not the only Labour backbencher MP who has the same thoughts.

Did he ask about a wealth tax?

Not watching but I saw that being mentioned.

Also Reform failed to turn up

Also Reform failed to turn up

They are otherwise preoccupied. Also it was nice to see the average IQ of the house of commons rise a little.

He asked.

"Disabled people in my constituency are frightened. And they are frightened because they are hearing the language of 'tough choices.'

And they know from bitter experience that when politicians talk about tough choices, it means the easy option of making the poor and vulnerable pay.

So instead of cutting benefits for disabled people, wouldn't the moral thing to do, the courageous thing to do, be to make a real tough choice and introduce a wealth tax on the very wealthiest people in our society?"

Starmer replied that getting people back to work is a 'moral imperative'. He also said that the government has put a windfall tax on energy companies, tax non-doms and put a new tax on private jets. Added there's no bottomless pit and "We must kick start growth to get the economic stability that we need."

@DuncinToffee

Starmer replied that getting people back to work is a 'moral imperative'

By cutting PIP, an in work benefit?

Labour is now deliberately misrepresenting what PIP is designed for.

The day that regulars on these threads stop attacking or condemning Tory politicians is the day I put away my criticism of Labour.

We’ll just have to disagree about other (likely) PMs being less capable.

As for tariffs, I don’t say that Starmer has ‘lost’ because the UK hasn’t been exempted; I’m just saying that he achieved no concessions.

The best that can be said of Starmer’s trip is that he went with a lot of unfortunate historical baggage and managed a cordial visit despite that. That’s a success as far as it goes, but no further.

You will be shocked but we have praised Tory politicians when credit was due.

You'll be waiting a long time for me to stop criticising Tory Govts/Ministers/Politicians....

Why? because pretty much everything they have ever done has harmed the UK, they ve been in power for the majority of the post war period and screwed it up.

From the tragic waste of N.Sea oil revenues, to removing worker rights, to privatisations, to selling off council housing, Austerity, Brexit... almost doubled our national debt, 4 fold increase in immigration, whilst having absolutely nothing to show for it.......labour and skills shortages, a collapsed public sector, roads crumbling... all they touch turns to shite!

Its indefensible, how you can still support them, will, like Stonehenge, remain a mystery.

Some of their worst ever recent PMs were Cameron, Bojo and Truss, just mess things up and make life harder than it should be for most people.

Do i like or agree with all this current Govt are doing? certainly not, not by a long chalk.

But Starmer is a serious politician, unlike most of the last Tory PMs we've had, can anyone imagine what "Pepper Pig" Johnson would have done in the US ? or Truss "lets export more Cheese" would have achieved?

Well said Alexander also the billions wasted on Rwanda which no ejjit in government thought to put in a clause that if no people went we got the money back & the hateful rhetoric which was whipped up by conservative Home Secretary’s & various MPs blaming absolutely everything on immigration rather than it suited them having cheap Labour without a thought for infrastructure & all the other strokes they’ve pulled which deliberately harmed this country they are an abomination & if a Labour government behave in the same manner I will have no issue with not supporting them, what really annoys me I see no conservatives actually admitting to the sorry mess they left behind them.

Could anyone explain please why a wealth tax doesn’t appear to be on the agenda.

Added there's no magic money tree bottomless pit and "We must kick start growth to get the economic stability that we need."

Bollocks.

Big hairy bollocks.

I refer the right honourable gentleman to the £10billion Theresa May discovered for the DUP days after telling a nurse to "fuck off, there's no magic money tree".

In 2 centuries time, Boris will probably be remembered as the PM who got rid of the Fixed Term Parliament Act. (Which for the record I was a massive supporter of when introduced, but now admit the critics at the time were 100% right about).

So praise for our second worst prime minister ever there, where it's due.