Nottingham attack... Keyboard warriors!

[BB78910]

Had no idea how to name this thread!

A news article popped up on my Facebook feed of a stabbing that happened in Nottingham yesterday.

Horrible news, and obviously really hard to hear that knife crime is still so prominent in our communities.

Within the article itself, there has been no mention of who the attacker was. No mention of his background, only that he was 16 years old. I even googled for other news sources and none of them have named the suspect even though he has been apprehended. As he is under age, he cannot be named publicly at this stage.

I often head to the comments to see a summary of an article on Facebook, because a lot of them are click bait headlines. I just could not believe the amount of hate in the comment section!!!

I'm copying and pasting some of them:

"stop letting the boats in"

"Mass deportations now simple"

"Every knife/machete crime in the UK now is more than likely to be perpetrated by immigrants"

"Stop letting them in"

Amongst other horrific comments about the Muslim community and immigration.

I know that Facebook is wild for things like that, but it's really sad to see how whenever anything bad happens, even without complete facts, immigrants and POC are automatically the reason.

Honestly, how on earth must this make people feel who've been here for generations, contributed to the country and happen to have brown skin?

Apologies, English not British.

But the recent crimes in question have been committed by immigrants. We can't ignore that because it makes us wince to say it.

It doesn't mean ALL immigrants do things like this. It'd be poposterous to even think like that.

It's a bit like Spain - very rightfully - having their fill of the 'Brits'. Doesn't mean I get offended and think "well I'm not a drunk lager lout! How dare you include me in your summisng!" I'm intelligent enough to realise they've noted a problem with how 'brits' behave because to them they ARE Brits. Doesn't mean it includes David & Mary who've retired out there to live in the rural sticks. Same way it doesn't make Craig from Romford a racist because he doesn't want the 'boat people here ' but is on great terms with Harith his GP. If he was a racist he'd refuse to be seen by Harith.

The argument always gets guffawed away with 'oh yes not those type of immigrant. We don't mean you ' but actually it's true. Most people DON'T mean your average working immigrant. Why on earth would they have a problem with a law abiding working immigrant? Hence the argument falls apart, it's not racist for people to be concerned about immigrants coming here who are not integrating and are threatening our western way of life.

I expect they feel the same way about crimes commited by immigrants as the rest of us Europeans.

Why are you attributing their skin colour as a link to recent atrocities ? There is no link. They're British. A racist telling them they're not has absolutely nothing to do with your original point. It's how these arguments get sidelined and shut down.

Can you honestly not see the irony ?

I find this loyalty to see racism In people's utter horror over the murderer of dead little children very distasteful indeed.

Should we start calling people out who call Myra Hindley a "bitch" because they wouldn't say that to a man ? It's only because she's a woman. Choose your bloody battles in a more dignified fashion, for the sake of those poor little girls families

As people ignore these issues at their own peril. You may learn one thing or two of what is happening in Germany today.

If you do not want to be part of that discrimination come out and condemn the people committing these crimes before implying they are the victims before the real victims. So long those people do not behave other people would be judged. We know not every immigrant is bad. I do have a problem with denying than many are causing trouble and we all suffer.

Well, this thread has gone into different directions and that is okay.

The original point as it stands though is me saying that it is unfair for people to say ‘ this is what happens when you let the boats in’ in response to a knife attack. I take it that you are entirely comfortable with racist remarks? Because you can’t argue that comment was intended as a debate starter around current affairs, it stated the direct correlation between this particular incident and immigration.

Yes you're correct - the recent crimes committed by immigrants/asylum seekers have been committed by immigrants/asylum seekers. However I've seen many news articles on violent attacks where the perpetrators have been white so it's not like the majority of crimes are being committed by immigrants/asylum seekers.
Of course, we need to look at recent cases like the ones in Germany and France where refugees attacked people. We can't shy away from this from fear of being called racist. We need to do everything in our power to stop these particular types of attacks happening again.
I don't believe the solution to this is to stop asylum seekers coming here. That's my view, others strongly disagree, fine.
It's worrying that many, many people are using these recent attacks to malign all non-white or non-British people. It doesn't matter if a black man is a fourth generation immigrant who's worked hard for the good of the country - to many people he's seen as being the same as a Syrian refugee who's driven a car into a crowd of people. You can say I'm wrong but I see these comments every single day on social media, hateful comments directed towards anyone with dark skin. An Asian councillor posted on Facebook today. He's been working tirelessly for his community which includes many white people. The comments were disgusting "I don't want a brown man being my councillor", "I'm sick of you lot coming here and thinking you run the place", "Is it too much to ask to have white British people representing our town", "Piss of back to Pakistan" etc. etc. It's absolutely horrible.

I would think it more likely that the attacker yesterday in Nottingham will be a young person who has been through / or is in the care system. But if so, there won’t be the comments about stamping out the abuse/neglect of children and young people on the news story - those with an agenda will look for the next attack that fits their narrative.

That's a shame. I find people's determination that a non white person who commits a crime can't possibly be British pretty bloody distateful, but you do you.

Not even going there on that sanctimonious second paragraph.

I agree with you entirely. The example given is devastating for that poor man and grossly unfair.

But two things can co-exist. We can have racism (true racism as in your example - not the new definition of racism that encompasses anyones concern regarding immigration) and have a link between large atrocities in western countries and finding a casual link that the perpetrator in many of those large scale attacks appears to come from an immigrant (usually non western) background. The two can both exist. One doesn't cancel out the other.

Shutting down these concerns and blocking them out because it makes us naturally polite and tolerant Brits feel squeamish and uncomfortable will not end well.

If you do not want to be part of that discrimination come out and condemn the people committing these crimes before implying they are the victims before the real victims. So long those people do not behave other people would be judged.

Wow! So if women don't want to experience misogyny, they should all come out and condemn any crime a woman has committed, otherwise whatever misogynistic statements made against women (and not just the woman in particular) at the time is valid? So long as any female criminal does not behave, other women would be judged and rightly so? That's what you're saying about minority groups - that they should all come out and condemn any act done by a member of their group or else they should accept the group discrimination because of the act of one or some, isn't it? Somehow they must pay for the sins of others, right?

Also, no one is implying that criminals are the victims. We are saying that those who didn't commit the crimes become the victims of racism, bigotry and hate from racists, bigots and idiots who group everyone together because a member or some members of that group have committed a crime. If someone commits a crime, focus on the person and their crime just like they do if that person is, for example, white. Don't start tarring everyone with the same brush.

Anyway, it does feel like the thread has conveniently become about immigration topic when i thought it was really about the hypocrisy of commenters when a perpetrator is from a certain group vs other groups, and speaking about everyone in the group as if they're all the same. That's what my posts are about anyway. I'll leave you all to it.

So if a Spanish man said to you "Brits cause such a problem here, the drinking, the drugs, the violence " would you say "how bloody dare you! Tar us all like that ! You're anti-british. Xenophobe!" Or would you agree with his statement and condemn your fellow Brits and reassure him we're not all like that.

As your so left wing , I'm guessing the latter. Works when it's that way right ?

If your community forms a minority in a given place, yes I would think it reasonable to condemn atrocities that have gathered press attention from a perpetrator that has assimilated themselves to your cause (whatever that may be) in the name of peace and cohesion.

I don't think that's an entirely unreasonable ask.

As your so left wing , I'm guessing the latter. Works when it's that way right ?

Well as you seem to have decided what "wing" I am and have concluded on my answer simply because I made what seems to be a normal reasonable statement ('Don't tar everyone with the same brush'), great. No need for me to answer then.

You do have a point.

I doubt you’ll get a straight answer though.

But you ARE tarring everyone with the same brush. It's just your target who's changed. Everyone who is concerned about unvetted immigration is a thick, biggoted, racist footy lout with an IQ of 20. There are many black, brown , intelligent people concerned about it. Chucking all black and brown people together and assuming they're all pro unvetted immigration is bloody insulting. Most people can't even see the irony !

If your community forms a minority in a given place, yes I would think it reasonable to condemn atrocities that have gathered press attention from a perpetrator that has assimilated themselves to your cause (whatever that may be) in the name of peace and cohesion.

So depending on their race/religion/nationality people should have to shout out the fact they don't agree with heinous crimes or barbaric acts of war in case the hard of thinking feels like they and others who share that race/religion/nationality are one homogeneous mass.

I’m going to repeat that Nottingham is having another run of gangs related crime- not necessarily big guns gang, but definitely groups of youth running amok- and people are sick of it. They are pretty equal opportunities angry though- the insults and trash talking are about all colours of perpetrator.

To an extent yes. I often feel the need to say that ‘not all Christians are child abusers/abortion protesters/anti gay rights’.

But you ARE tarring everyone with the same brush. It's just your target who's changed. Everyone who is concerned about unvetted immigration is a thick, biggoted, racist footy lout with an IQ of 20.

Please stop making things up. Show me where i tarred everyone with the same brush. If you can show me where I said or even implied that those who're racist and bigoted are those who're concerned about unvetted immigration and all the other things you've posted there, and not that those who actually make racist statements in the comments against others because a member of their group has committed a crime are the racists and bigots, I'll appreciate. Otherwise, you seem to be deliberately posting inflammatory opinions and accusations to claim people support unvetted immigration.

As I said earlier, I wasn't on this thread to talk about immigration but you seem to have derailed it into it and you can continue with it. It just has never been my point on this thread. I don't know why you keep joining it together regardless of what you're responding to. We are not on the same page or saying the same things. You seem to be talking about immigration, fine. I'm talking about hypocrisy in general, also fine. If you can't respond to my particular points without making it look like I'm talking about 'unvetted immigration' which I'm not, there's no need responding to me because I didn't respond to any of yours.

@ArrrghNoName I've just trawled the thread trying to find those remarks. Maybe I need Specsavers!

@myplace That's a great shame. And disheartening that there are posters out there who think it's acceptable.

So, if say most terrorist related atrocities are commited by a community that happens to be a sizeable minority in the place where they are commited, then yes I would expect a spokes person to make a statement on behalf of their group to condemn the actions made in their name.

Do we not beg men on here (or the 'not my Nigel's ' as they're branded if they won't take responsibility for their fellow (abusive) males. Don't we beg them to tackle head on and speak out about male violence against women because it's a 'male' problem. "But my husband and son wouldn't hurt a soul" says user1. "Tough shit" says user2 "your "Nigel " needs to stand up and fight the cause, he's a man".....

Thank you! I know I've not said any of that or implied it at all. Where the accusation came from I have no idea.

Ah, shame you can't recognise a (rhetorical) "question" with an already faulty premise and preconceived answer to the same question. But it's to be expected when one only sees what they want to see.