Ukraine Invasion: Part 54

[MagicFox]

We're on 54. Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
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Nope - no messages received. But then I do have a fairly brutal junk email setting that often sees me missing out on genuine emails.

Is it any relation to this thread or just regular spam email?

Eww. No, no messages to me.

Thanks for letting us know, @Igotjelly . Hope MNHQ can help.

This is making me think of the spearphishing messages targetted at a load of people working in UK politics, which lured William Wragg MP into giving the spearphisher blackmailable personal material and also revealing other MPs' contact info.

William Wragg: MP tells paper he is sorry for sharing private phone numbers
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68731683
The message was from a number he did not recognise from someone calling themselves Charlie who claimed to remember them from their time working in Parliament.
"The last part of that message was 'Westminster misses you…' and that was basically something that friends usually do say anyway to make me feel better," he told BBC News.
"I was starting to feel bad actually. I was embarrassed thinking I'm speaking to someone who knows who I am and I'm trying desperately not to come across as rude."

Wragg was Tory, but they attacked Labour too:

The Westminster honeytrap mystery is even stranger than we thought
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68796369
Different party, different city, same approach. A few weeks later M-xl was messaging men at the Labour conference in Liverpool.

Yeh that’s it.

I’m trying to stay out of this a bit but can the collective ‘we’ maybe resist the (perhaps accidental) temptation to get target fixation on “the EU”/“Macron”, certainly when it comes to defence spending…

The Uk has hardly been leading light when it comes to effective defence procurement….

PM's from the sound of it, so on Mumsnet itself.

Nothing here

The idea that the US indirectly subsidises universal healthcare in other countries through its military is a very pervasive myth among MAGA types. It's completely untrue, the various levels of US government spend more on healthcare per capita than anyone else does, on top of private spending. It's just that their privatised healthcare system profiteers out of it.

Just as long as you're not a cartoonist working for a newspaper owned by a tech billionaire. Because you'll just get censored:
www.theguardian.com/media/2025/jan/04/washington-post-cartoonist-resigns-jeff-bezos

Yes that’s right.

Well I'm pretty sure one reason he admires Putin is because Putin has been in power for 20 years and has set things up so he is still in power in the 2030s. It's likely Trump has a similar strategy. Can you see him happily stepping down in 4 years?
Indeed, Russia's constitution had a two-term limit just like the US does. Putin swapped in Mededev as his puppet for a term, who amended the constitution to extend term lengths and effectively remove the two-term limit.

I’m sure that in the MAGA fever swamps online people believe all sorts of rubbish. That doesn’t mean those ideas are widespread or held by serious people.

The US does spend more per capital, but that’s total public and private spending. About 30% of the population have government provided healthcare, and the Affordable Care Act caps private medical insurance profits at 20% of premiums collected. If they make more than that it has to be returned to the policy holders.

https://www.aeaweb.org/research/regulating-health-insurers-aca-medical-loss-ratio

The American healthcare system is quite complex, even for those of us who use it, but it’s not as draconian as most people on MN seem to think.

I’m sure that in the MAGA fever swamps online people believe all sorts of rubbish. That doesn’t mean those ideas are widespread or held by serious people.

It could be in the MAGA swamps but unfortunately the MAGA people vote without much thinking involved.

I swear a meritocracy is the best form of govt .. unfortunately it'd not stay a meritocracy, given human nature.

Just to clarify, the 80/20 medical loss ratio doesn’t mean that insurers are guaranteed a 20% profit. It means that 80% of premiums have to go to medical services and pharmaceuticals. The insurers have to cover their administrative costs from the remaining 20%, then they (and their shareholders) take the rest.

Actually quite a few held their noses and voted for Trump fully aware of who and what he is because they considered the alternative worse.

Yes, I absolutely believe you when you say those ideas aren't held by serious people.

We're just taking note of a particular piece of misinformation which is doing the rounds to help sell the US's withdrawal from its long-term allies. It's a tricky sell which will need a lot of PR grease, and this is one small element.

I’m sure that in the MAGA fever swamps online people believe all sorts of rubbish. That doesn’t mean those ideas are widespread or held by serious people.
Well of course, but the serious people aren't in charge any more. The billionaires (whose main interest is enriching themselves) are, and it's in their interest to have a scapegoat that the public can blame poor services on while Elon dismantles them for his own ends.

The US does spend more per capita, but that’s total public and private spending.
Statista says $11k in public expenditure, compared with the UK's $5k:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/283221/per-capita-health-expenditure-by-country/
I don't have an account so can't see how the figures are reached.

Well if definitely can't be a serious person who holds that belief because it's so ridiculous but unfortunately there are a lot of not serious people. And they are very vocal.

Indeed, a lie will get halfway around the world before the truth has got out of bed.

Breaking news from Sky - “Vladimir Putin says he has been told by Donald Trump that Ukraine will take part in future talks.”

I’m the first to slag off Donald but if this is true then good!!

That bar chart is a bit confusing, but what it shows is a per capita expenditure of $13.4k, of which $11k on average across the whole population comes from private money and the remainder from government spending. Private coverage is funded primarily by employers, with employees typically paying 10-20% of the cost. I have excellent coverage for my whole family and it costs me about $250 per month.

Both our system and the NHS ration care. We do it via insurance and the NHS does it with waiting lists and restrictions on what they will provide.

Apologies for the derailment.

Thanks, @MissConductUS .

all round. I think we probably all need it this week.

I have excellent coverage for my whole family and it costs me about $250 per month.

Well that's notably less than I'm paying, and that's only for me and the two children. Though I'm at the higher band by choice, as health is not good.

I know the US is getting a lot of criticism on this thread, but something you said genuinely puzzles me deeply. You said some people voted for Trump as voting for Harris was worse. Is it possible to explain the reasoning why Harris would be worse? Trump is six times a bankrupt, a graceless and clearly incoherent and very, very selfish individual who created an insurrection, arranged a situation where the President cannot be legally held accountable for his actions, was clearly irresponsible with state secrets and who made claims that no one could believe. I truly cannot understand how Harris could be worse. While I follow Twitter and see the claims that the Democrats are worse, there is never any reasoning to back that claim up (that I've seen anyway). Is it possible to explain them?

Trump is doubtless worse as an individual than Harris, but lots of voters felt that she would simply continue the Biden administration’s policies, which caused problems economically and was much too permissive of illegal immigration. NYC had to cut billions from police and education budgets to accommodate undocumented immigrant, something that happened in most large cities.

And there were lots of culture war issues as well, like allowing transgender men to compete in women’s and girl’s sports, use women’s changing rooms, etc.

So lots of people concluded that as odious as he is, the country as a whole would be better off with Trump.

I put most of the blame for Trump on Biden. He promised to run for one term only and to govern as a centrist. Instead, he turned policy making over to the far left and had to be dragged out of the race kicking and screaming just months before the election. Had he kept his word, the democrats could have run a better candidate that appealed to the political middle.

By the way, I’m on the high option for insurance too because of various medical issues. Standard coverage would cost 30% less that what I currently contribute.

Quite ironic Putin calling Zelenskyy “illegitimate” eh!

Thank you for the explanation.

Like so many I suspect I wish Biden had said he would step aside many months before.