If someone has a 2:1 English literature degree , would you say they are very intelligent/academic?

[Curiousss]

Just basically this question, curious to know what people think.

Intelligent, but not very much so.

I agree with this. A First used to show exceptional talent, now it's a ten a penny grade.

And I'd say your 2:1 from 50+ years ago was a far far better result than my First from 12 years ago.

I've got a DPhil (Oxon) in a STEM subject from 30 years ago. Do I win the thread?

I do however feel the need to point out that where you go to University has far more to do with your background rather than your intelligence. Someone who is the first in their family to go to Uni is pretty intelligent and hard working to overcome the odds even if they go to the local expoly (even more impressive if they get into a more prestigious University). Someone who went to private school and ends up with a gentleman's degree, however prestigious the institution, is not.

I have a 2:1 in English Lit! I am very intelligent. But I also have a couple of Masters degrees and a PhD.

Op, its a silly but fun question for the answers alone!

I got a 2:1 30 years ago from UCL, humanities degree but not English - I was always late with my essays and marks always downgraded, otherwise I’d have got a first, I couldn’t stop procrastinating which I much later found to be part of other complex issues. I’m probably neurodivergent like my children, another discovery. I am excellent at some things (intelligent) and completely useless at other things (unintelligent?). I have a decent job but never had the ambition to climb the career ladder as I need a lot of time to unwind and be alone, hate social events, etc.

So, answer to OP’s question, it depends on many factors.

Depends on the person. I couldn't answer without knowing more about them

Got one in the ’90s. Two marks off a First and yes I’m still bitter about it!

I am not academic; I am gift of the gab articulate with a bloody good memory so could pepper my essays with the right quotations.

I am intelligent, which for me means quick-thinking and able to take in, process and apply lots of information.

No, I have one and I wouldn't call myself that. 🤓

Depends which university.

English is very competitive so more brains there than some other subjects but eg Harvard or St Andrews is worth more than Hull or Kent.

Oxford firsts are numerous, by the way.

In 2009, approximately 20% of students graduating from an Irish university got a 1.1. The majority received a 2.1. You can look up the stats for the university online.

I think it's reasonable/average but not exceptional.

That said, I don't think a degree is evidence of intelligence. Some people will get a 1.1 because it comes easy to them- fantastic memory etc. They will have other weaknesses. Plenty of people with zero degrees are extrembly intelligent. It's not a true measure of much.

Someone who obtained a 2.1 and worked extremely hard for it, will always be more impressive than someone who got a 1.1 just because it came more naturally.

There are very few people who are naturally gifted at everything.

An English literature is not a ‘mickey mouse’ degree, if that’s what you’re asking

I'd say it's not a very reliable indicator of where they are on the scale between fairly average intelligence and very intelligent. It depends on the era (i.e. what proportion of people went to university at that time) and the standard of university they went to (partly because of how good you have to be to get in, and partly based on the demands of the course). I did a PGCE in the 90s. The difference in academic ability and in what had been covered in the undergraduate courses by my peers from different universities was huge.

Well I graduated last year with a 2:1 in English Literature with Creative Writing and I'm very proud of myself for it. 😁

I was basically one of the top students when I was at school. I got unheard of results in some exams. I then dropped out of uni twice for different reasons after leaving school.

I started my OU degree when my youngest was a baby. It took me 16 years, issues with my own health and disabilities as well as being a carer for my autistic 16yo through some really tough times.

I'm also a supreme procrastinator. If I had actually not had everything else going on then maybe I would have had a First but with everything else I was often writing and submitting assignments right up to the deadline. I occasionally scrapped them and fully rewrote thousands of words within a few hours on submission day. One of my assignments was a 0 because it was late and that tutor was stricter than the others. So I think getting a 2:1 in my own circumstances is bloody amazing. Even if other people don't.

There’s an awful lot of very British sneers at brains here.

I have a 2:1 in English language and literature. Most days I can barely string a sentence together! It was quite an easy degree from what I remember.

I have a 2.1 in English from a polytechnic. This was 35 years ago! I became an academic after taking an MA in my thirties.

I think if you look at the universally acknowledged creative geniuses of the last few hundred years, there are very few degrees among them really. Siegfried Sassoon left Clare before taking a degree. Wilfred Owen had no chance of getting into uni at that time, same for Isaac Rosenberg. Charles Sorley would have though and quite possibly been an academic had WW1 not happened, he'd won a scholarship to University College Oxford.

Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, all degreeless and bona fide masters of their art by any standard. That's before we start on the painters.

I just had a google for Oxford Firsts and 36% of students get them, so just the same as any other uni.

I disagree about it depending on the university. Another poster made the point about opportunity and upbringing playing a part in where many students end up. There can be many extremely intelligent people who haven't had great opportunities who end up at a shit university. I wouldn't judge anyone on that.

I mean impossible to say without knowing how hard they tried also - average effort to come out with 2:1 - potential unknown. Absolute top tier effort and scraped a 2:1 might not suggest particularly academic but effort will probably get them further in long run

No. English is one of the 'easy' subjects at University level. To get a degree in it you need to be reasonably intelligent and articulate, but highly intelligent or a natural academic-no.

I disagree that English is easy...there's a lot of analysis involved. I'd put it on a par with History

But then I did mine 35 years ago so maybe it's less rigorous now

I just had a google for Oxford Firsts and 36% of students get them, so just the same as any other uni

That doesn't mean that the standard required is the same across different universities. They set their own courses and their own exams. Someone who gets a first at Hull or Aberystwyth may well not have been capable of getting a first at Oxford.

Totally agree. Some of the most brilliant lawyers I know didn't go to prestigious universities (I did). They are ferociously bright but neither their school nor their families were "in the know". But they have worked their way up through the profession and their intelligence and aptitude is unarguable.

I dislike snobbery about universities for this reason, sometimes they are part of the process of unlocking doors to people who are phenomenally talented but lacked the family connections and knowledge and support to channel that ability.

And actually some of them do brilliant degrees with a vocational year in the middle of similar and produce some very employable lawyers

Depends what you measure intelligence on. I have a 2:1 in English from a non- mumsnet acceptable university but am shit hot at pub quizzes and really really well read. I can't change a tyre or do maths at all.

45% of 16yos get Maths and English GCSEs at Grade 5.
Doing Alevels (or equivalent) is "above average intelligence"
Getting a degree is way above average intelligence.

Then within the population of graduates, 2:1 is an average grade.