If someone has a 2:1 English literature degree , would you say they are very intelligent/academic?

[Curiousss]

Just basically this question, curious to know what people think.

Not really.
Probably quite good at writing essays

Why is it different depending on which university you went to?

I get that Oxbridge is different, but what makes a degree from Manchester different from a degree from Swansea?

I may be a snob but I am never uninformed.

2:1 is not that hard to achieve, especially in a non demanding subject like English literature

I may be a snob but I am never uninformed.

I'm afraid your comments on this thread suggest otherwise.

I'm interested @DisabledDemon how many post 92 universities have you worked at?

'Non-demanding' depends on who is doing the course @Klovos. I know lots of people who are brilliant at maths and science but can't write an essay or interpret prose, poetry, imagery etc. Now I would accept that the maths and science people are almost certainly cleverer because of the difficulty of their subject but I don't think it's fair to call an arts based subject 'non-demanding!'

I struggle to engage with people who refer to any degree as 'mickey mouse studies'.

The UK labour market is skills led, not subject led. On any given year over 80% of graduate jobs don't ask for a specific subject. They are more interested in the skills developed. And it always comes as surprise to some people that those subjects they consider to be Mickey Mouse degrees are often really good at supporting students to develop skills that are highly valued by employers.

Now, it's also a university's job to help students realise this and support them in demonstrating these skills to employers. And of course some are better than others, but students also need to take some responsibility too. Just getting a degree isn't enough.

It's not the fault of the subject studied because the employers largely don't care.

I agree. DD smashed her STEM degree but would have floundered at interpreting poetry or a piece of Shakespeare.

Hahaha haha

Oh wait, you're serious?

Who is?
Me?

Above average intelligence but average for a graduate, I'd say. Also depends when they took their degree. Only 10% went to university pre Blair.

I'm a university lecturer. A 2:1 is 'very good' a first is 'excellent'. Stuff graded at 80% or more is near publishable.
I'd say that is quite academic and would not rule you out of doing a masters and then a PhD if that's what you want to do. The majority of the population do not get degrees so qualifications wise you're doing well!

Well I went into work straight after my (failed) A levels and have done ok. Good job, own house etc.

I sometimes look at my peers who went to university and it's a mix of whether they're better off than me or not. Those who are better off financially seem to be because they are still with their husbands. I'm on my own so proud that I pay the mortgage and survive.

I did get a place in the early 90s as a mature student (as it was back then) to study to be a PE teacher but didn't qualify for a grant and didn't think it was fair to ask my parents for support as I'd been working for a few years. In hindsight, I'd never be earning my current salary as a PE teacher plus wet hockey pitches aren't appealing. So overall I think I made the right decision.

I sometimes wish I'd been more focused at school and sixth form which would perhaps have opened up other doors. But I thought I knew best back then.

I don't consider myself to be massively intelligent but I'm above average. I took numerous financial qualifications in my 20s. I just don't have a degree certificate to prove it.

Many people don't go to university to earn more though, but for the opportunity to study a subject in much greater depth.

Health has curtailed my earning potential but I don't regret my university years a jot. Success,.for me, is having a career that is interesting and fulfilling, and flexible so I can juggle work alongside my health and my children.

Totally agree. But there was nothing really that floated my boat enough to study in any greater depth as I was always just into sport. I'd probably change it if I had my time again but no point wasting energy worrying now. Just counting down to retirement when I can go and do the things I didn't do when I was young!

I think that was a really sensible decision tbh.

I loved university but many people seemed to have no idea why they were there and no real interest in what they are studying. I would only want one of my children to go if they either had a clear career plan or something they really wanted to study in depth.

At present, one is planning to go as they have to for their chosen career (medicine), one has a subject they just cannot wait to study in real depth (they already study it for pleasure at home) and one has his eye on a degree level apprenticeship. The other is young still but may well just choose to start work or go travelling.

As you say, not having a degree doesn't say anything about someone's intelligence

Very intelligent or academic would depend on a few factors - mostly, which university and when. And then other factors come in if whoever is judging actually knows you rather than just your degree classification.

I'd say that the mn demographic leans towards the more educated end of the population so you'll be less exceptional here. But it's easy to forget that the majority of the population do not have decent degrees, and that a lot of people simply wouldn't have the ability even if they had the opportunity. Whether they lack intelligence or work ethic or just a focussed passion for a subject will vary.

Overall, if your degree was all I knew about you I'd assume you were intelligent and academic as a starting point. But that is different to your actual worth as a person, which I hope isn't being solely linked to your education by anyone?

@SerenityNowSerenityNow"I struggle to engage with people who refer to any degree as 'mickey mouse studies'."

Me too.Such an ignorant thing to say.

👋
Well said.

Many people don't go to university to earn more though, but for the opportunity to study a subject in much greater depth

I suspect that more and more that will be the preserve of the more privileged members of the population.

DD went to university to study in a subject that she wants to make a career out of. Her masters that she is undertaking is training her for a specific rol which will practically guarantee her a job/career at the end of it.

Anyone with the critical thinking skills to gain a decent degree obviously has some intelligence

My dd has a degree in Theology. She is not an academic. She is not an RE teacher. She is not a minister of religion. She is an atheist. If anyone is surprised by this, they are only showing that they don't understand education.

I think that’s really interesting! I certainly knew some cheerfully atheist historians of religion when I was doing my doctorate (in Eng. Lit). What was the core of the interest that carried her into and sustained her through a full degree programme?

Totally this. I have both in my immediate family and they require completely different skillsets. The scientist is.doing stuff the rest.of.us don't remotely understand, but couldn't write a 5000-word essay on a book every week, and nor would they want to.

One isn't harder than the other - both look very difficult to the person who is studying the other.

And fwiw the.English Literature graduate most definitely has used their degree in their work, they're a writer.

@LaundryPond "I think that’s really interesting! I certainly knew some cheerfully atheist historians of religion when I was doing my doctorate (in Eng. Lit). What was the core of the interest that carried her into and sustained her through a full degree programme?"

She was-well, still is-interested in women's rights, history, literature, sociology, psychology, philosophy-people in general. Theology ticked all the boxes!

No amount of work would have given me a first for my first degree so I'm living proof of my opinion too aren't I?