If someone has a 2:1 English literature degree , would you say they are very intelligent/academic?

[Curiousss]

Just basically this question, curious to know what people think.

I agree. I have a 2:1 in English Literature, graduated in 1992. I would score average in iQ tests, but I am good at writing essays with a natural flair for the subject. I love reading and going to the theatre. My DD is studying Chemistry and she is way more intelligent than I am.

Just because you have a degree, it doesn't mean you are intelligent, it just means you are interested in the subject. I have a couple of degrees, my husband doesn't, he is far intelligent than me.

Same 🤣

Nope, I have one from a good uni and I'm dumb. English Literature degrees are literally a degree in who can write the best bullshit, and it's entirely subjective marking. I REALLY resent wasting three years of my life and the associated student debt. I did use my degree initially to work in publishing (which is insanity because while it was apparently needed, it was actually useless and provided me with no transferable skills!), but now work in an entirely different industry, for which a degree is most certainly not needed.

That is not to say that everyone who has a 2:1 in English Literature is dumb, probably many are very intelligent, but it is absolutely not an indicator of definite intelligence.

Except the reverse scores are unknown.

I know people who opted for an "easier degree" but would have got high marks if they gone for the Maths or Maths route.

My mum has a photographic memory but didn't have the opportunity to go to Uni when younger.

She did study as an older student, working full time, lessons in the evenings whilst raising 4 kids and got top marks.

I'm more streetwise, common sense, only need to be shown how to do something once sort of person.
I find studying painfully tedious. It's a challenge to concentrate and keep having to go back on myself.

No! I've got a first in English Lit and I'm not that smart. I am well read ; )

I have an English lit degree and I’m thick as shit academically. I really struggled at uni.

I am interested in the world around me, have an interested in the arts, theatre, enjoy discussing in depth issues that concern me, the world, abstract thoughts etc. I love nature etc. I’ve never used my degree to get a job (due to circs I’ve always done minimum wage jobs and also I have adhd too) I think I did the wrong degree personally.

my late dh was shit at school, he was undiagnosed dyslexic, really struggled to write and read and yet he was one of the most intelligent and nicest people I’ve ever known.

Academic intelligence is only one type of intelligence

Wow! The snobbery and inverse snobbery (jealousy?) on here is breathtaking.

Dismissing the achievements of our young people is a shitty thing to do. While there is obviously grade inflation going on there is no need for that.

It's not either/or though is it?

A qualification is one measure of intelligence. It's not the only measure.

Regardless of some if the comments here, to get a 2:1 you need to have demonstrated some intelligence. They're not given away.

Haha
You are me, just twenty years younger

@Curiousss You're getting a lot of competitive nonchalance here because Mumsnet is primarily used by middle-class, degree-educated British women, which apart from anything else, is culturally quite a self-deprecating group (an observation, not a criticism!).

I also have a 2:1 from the 2000's from an NUI (and went on to do a PhD in the UK), but for lots of people a 2:1 in English is statistically a degree that identifies you as more "intelligent" (a problematic workd depending on how you measure that - privilege plays a big part) and more academically inclined than average. You'd stand out less in Ireland where far more people have degrees than in the UK.

How a degree positions you is just determined by the other people in the room. If you work somewhere where everybody probably has a degree, then you're average. If your job doesn't require one, then you might seem relatively academic compared to your colleagues.

My uncle had a degree in English from UCD in the early 1960's, when Ireland was very poor and a very small % of the population went to university, and he certainly self-identified as an "intellectual" whereas I think he'd look a bit silly today thinking of himself that way without a graduate degree and aligned career.

Not necessarily.
Being academically bright is no indicator of common sense!

Common sense doesn't automatically equate to intelligence either though.

Absolutely correct!

I’ve always thought common sense is another type of intelligence.

as is emotional intelligence.

what defines intelligence anyway?

You insist on a rather narrow and pedestrian definition of ‘hard work’ without seeking to evaluate terms. At university level hard work most certainly does not mean learning facts and regurgitating them - that’s not even relevant beyond GCSE.

Workload at different universities diverges greatly - at Oxbridge the terms are short, the workload considerable, such that students are not permitted to have term time jobs. Even at top red bricks the workload is significantly lighter.

Originality and incisiveness in humanities are a given. For that you need a good command of the material - how do you know what is original if you have not read widely? Originality counts for much less in STEM - it’s much more important that the answer is right.

How do you acquire knowledge? To display an impressive knowledge base you have to put the work - to achieve a good command of the subject and have read around it widely. That is the foundation on which you can make good analysis and good argument - otherwise what you think is good may simply be naive, simplistic and superficial.

I went to Oxford, I worked in the holidays. Sorry for not making that clear.

I am not sure what people mean by hard work then, I certainly didn't put in more hours. What I did was work very effectively and hone in on what I really needed to read about and think about. It was about the quality of the work not the hours sat at my desk.

Of course,but it's just not true that it's more hours of learning that differentiate between a first and a 2:1. It's how that time is spent and how the learning is applied.

When I graduated (1999), 2:1 was fairly common, but slightly more 2:2s. But you needed a 2:1 to do postgrad, so I would say it's ok. 1st would be highly intelligent I'd think. I got a 2:1, just short of a 1st but I partied a fair bit

Academics agree that standards have dropped massively as higher education has been commodified to the extent that the grading system is practically worthless.

Anyone with a Desmond today would have failed in the 80s and most firsts these days would be solid but not exceptional 2:1 s then.

As an academic I wouldn't say the grading system is worthless.
If we thought that then why do we bother assessing students at all?
At my university we spend a lot of time on effective and robust assessment strategies.

Ok ' largely worthless' .

At my elite university in the 80s, a tiny percentage were awarded first class degrees year on year.

Now it's what? A ludicrous 20 or 30 per cent.

Either the average IQ of our young people has massively escalated ( I see zero evidence of this, in fact quite the reverse) - or standards have declined.

The reasons for the latter are patently obvious. A) They are paying through the nose, and because they have paid a lot, they demand a lot, even though in some cases they simply have not put in the effort ( how old fashioned) and B) far too many kids with little academic ability are being railroaded to 'uni', to prop up the stats of secondary schools.

This is a massive policy failure of successive governments. The country needs more builders, roofers, plumbers and other skilled trades.

Not a load of demoralised kids who have paid a fortune for a degree from the University of Middle Wallop, and who now man the tills at Tesco, having accumulated a huge debt they will never repay.

Which in itself is a bubble waiting to burst, I suspect.

Depends where they got it and when - and in what subject! English Literature could make you highly academic whereas another subject from the University of UsedToBeAPoly might not.

@DisabledDemon , some of the former polytechnics are highly respected, and your post shows you up as a snob.