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Lucy Letby: a condensed update on recent developments

684 replies

Kittybythelighthouse · 05/02/2025 12:36

So, in the past week or so alone we’ve had:

Leading neonatology expert Dr Shoo Lee (Professor Emeritus at University of Toronto, Honorary Physician at Mount Sinai Hospital, President of the Neonatal Foundation, Founder of Canadian Neonatal Network, Previously Head of Neonatology at University of Toronto and a hospital for sick children) says his 1989 paper, which the prosecution relied on as their only proof of alleged intravenous air embolism (skin discolouration) was misused by the prosecution. He actually went to the appeal hearing and had his paper Judge-splained to him by three CoA judges who probably don’t even have a science A level (the judiciary have a poor record regarding science). He was so astonished and aggrieved that he has has published a new peer reviewed paper filling in all new evidence since 1989 and distinguishing between intravenous and arterial air embolism which the 1989 paper didn’t do. The conclusion: there is zero evidence for skin discolouration in intravenous air embolism, which is the only possibility in this case. This means there is absolutely no evidence to support an allegation of air embolism. It didn’t happen.

https://t.co/TRokh1hneu

Dr Shoo Lee pulled together a blue ribbon panel of the world’s best experts in relevant areas. Never before in legal history has a group of such highly regarded international experts come together to challenge the evidence against a convicted serial killer. They went through all of the evidence independently and pro bono (with the proviso that they would publish reports regardless of findings). Yesterday they held a press conference. Conclusion: there were no murders. There was plenty of poor care, medical malpractice, mistakes, and a poorly run struggling hospital.

“If this was a hospital in Canada, it would be shut down”

Link to their summary report: drive.google.com/file/d/1aV4zwwdBYw8Z_E-Tpe9_-iPR7n8cZdFk/view

A leak from an Operation Hummingbird detective which reveals that deaths were chosen as suspicious or not based on whether Letby was on shift (remember, most of the babies had uncontroversial post mortems at the time). There were ten other cases originally classed as suspicious until it was established Letby couldn’t have done them, then they magically became unsuspicious.

“Four more children would later be added, two children would be dropped, collapses deleted and added as the focus was turned in different directions, and the whole chart thoroughly chopped and changed. The guiding principle being, always, that Letby must be in the frame.” Trials of Lucy Letby on X.

https://t.co/FOO55lWlCi

Chester Police responded with a statement to The Mail on Sunday:

“There is a significant public interest in these matters, however, every story that is published, statement made, or comment posted online that refers to the specific details of a live investigation can impede the course of justice and cause further distress to the families concerned. It is these families and the ongoing investigations that remain our primary focus.”

“Cheshire Constabulary's statement to the Mail on Sunday is remarkable, coming from a police force that put out an HOUR-LONG promotional video about their own investigation.

They claim to be demurring from commenting now because "every story that is published, statement made, or comment posted online that refers to the specific details of a live investigation can impede the course of justice and cause further distress to the families concerned."

Such concerns did not stop them, less than two years ago, from flooding the press with incendiary and prejudicial commentary, going so far as to announce that they'd be reviewing the care of 4,000 babies that Letby may have ever come into contact with.

The lead investigator, Paul Hughes, even sat down with the co-hosts of the Daily Mail podcast for an episode called "Catching the Killer Nurse," where he speculated to no end about the supposedly evil and cunning machinations behind Letby's every move, and concluded that "she clearly does love the attention. I think she's loved the attention of a trial." (From The Trials of Lucy Letby on X).

Is Letby the one who loved the attention? The investigation was as active then as it is today. Why the silence now? 🤔

Thirlwall released the witness statement of Michelle Turner on behalf of Liverpool Women’s Hospital. She speaks about Letby's placement in 2012 & 2015, including how unlikely she would have been in an intensive care room without another nurse present.

thirlwall.public-inquiry.uk/wp-content/upl…

Former Director of Public Prosecutions Lord MacDonald to BBC’s World at One: “It is clear that there is now this quite impressive body of work. Something may have gone wrong here. That clearly has to be taken seriously.”

"New documents released by the Thirlwall Inquiry also show how the Countess of Chester refused to take part in research to improve outcomes for premature babies."

Neena Modi: "The Countess of Chester was the only hospital to decline participation."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/04/the-10-baby-deaths-that-cast-doubt-on-lucy-letbys-guilt/

Meanwhile the CPS still (as far as we know) refuse to hand over former Dr Dewi Evans new report about how one of the babies died - written in October 2024 after BBC’s File on Four challenged him about Letby not having been on shift when an ‘incriminating’ x ray was taken. In fact she hadn’t been on shift since the baby was born. She was convicted of killing this baby.

The CCRC announced yesterday that they have opened their investigation of the case. They assembled a team specifically for this case late last year, in anticipation of an application. This is an extraordinarily speedy and organised response from the CCRC.

https://ccrc.gov.uk/news/lucy-letby-application-received-by-criminal-cases-review-commission/

This has been a remarkable, historic, run of events. It is now looking very likely that the case will go back to the Court of Appeal, or there may be a more expedient solution. Whatever happens, it’s very unlikely to take the CCRC their usual 10 years to deal with it. They are on the ropes recently, with a CEO stepping down and a raft of bad press. I am not Mystic Meg, but my money is on an exoneration within the year.

https://tinyurl.com/33hmv6cy

https://t.co/TRokh1hneu

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Kittybythelighthouse · 13/02/2025 10:40

onwardsup4 · 13/02/2025 09:18

Brilliant post thank you

Thanks. It just really grinds my gears when people assume the moral high road for themselves when they are the ones arguing to handwave away egregious errors in two of our most vital public institutions! Getting this right is of tremendous importance to all British citizens, whether they realise it or not!

Worst part is I suspect many are doing this because they were quite enjoying their witch burning and endless poring over the grubby salacious details of this shocking true crime drama. They don’t want their witch taken away. It gives me the shivers, honestly.

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dragonfliesandbees · 13/02/2025 10:42

BIossomtoes · 12/02/2025 21:32

It’s a life time sentence of torture for the parents of those babies.

It is. Sadly nothing can change that now and it's not a reason to allow an unsafe conviction.

I've tried to put myself in their shoes. As much as I understand why they want this all to be over and done with, why they need it to be so that they can try to move on with their lives, I simply can't understand why anyone would object to the possibility that their baby wasn't murdered or deliberately harmed. Ultimately, would that not bring comfort and relief?

If the deaths were the result of medical failings then I would hope for an inquiry into how this could happen and how it can be prevented in the future. This will save lives. I can't see why any parent would object to that.

onwardsup4 · 13/02/2025 11:31

@Kittybythelighthouse completely agree, there's a new thread you've probably already seen it asking why all us sheep only read the headlines 🤯
I commented but then had to hide it I've found this whole thing has wound me up and upset me more than I'd like!
What a mess.

onwardsup4 · 13/02/2025 11:41

BIossomtoes · 12/02/2025 21:32

It’s a life time sentence of torture for the parents of those babies.

It is and it's absolutely awful but it also applies to the parents of babies that they didn't pin on LL. Unfortunately there's a bigger picture and the truth must be found.

Kittybythelighthouse · 13/02/2025 11:51

onwardsup4 · 13/02/2025 11:31

@Kittybythelighthouse completely agree, there's a new thread you've probably already seen it asking why all us sheep only read the headlines 🤯
I commented but then had to hide it I've found this whole thing has wound me up and upset me more than I'd like!
What a mess.

I hadn’t seen it. I’m very busy today so I probably shouldn’t get sucked in 🙈 I probably will though!

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Kittybythelighthouse · 13/02/2025 11:53

onwardsup4 · 13/02/2025 11:41

It is and it's absolutely awful but it also applies to the parents of babies that they didn't pin on LL. Unfortunately there's a bigger picture and the truth must be found.

This is such an important point that gets overlooked. There were quite a few excess deaths in COCH in 2015 that Letby couldn’t have done even if she is a murderer. What killed all the other babies? It’s not fair on those parents to just shrug that off.

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Londonmummy66 · 13/02/2025 13:43

Kittybythelighthouse · 12/02/2025 23:19

It is. Which would have been an extremely good reason to have got this right and not dragged them through years and years of renewed horror upon horror. I have deep and sincere sympathy for the parents, but this case doesn’t exist in a vacuum. This case is seismic in terms of what it exposes about our justice system and the NHS, two public institutions that we need to be able to trust.

This is of serious, vital, relevance to all of us, our children’s lives, and our own. Even those who feel convinced she is guilty should want the process to be rigorous and just, and therefore the convictions made safe, because if the process wasn’t rigorous and just here (and it wasn’t) then it could be you or yours at the wrong end of a courtroom next time.

With everything that has come out, there is simply no way that you or anyone else can honestly say they are absolutely sure that she’s guilty. That means it must be revisited. We have to, at the very least, take a look under the bonnet. We have to insist that justice has integrity in every branch and limb, because if it isn’t rigorous and just everywhere it is not rigorous and just anywhere and that is very dangerous indeed for all of us.

Excellent post @Kittybythelighthouse

DancingLions · 14/02/2025 08:38

Whilst I agree that the CCRC need to review this case as a matter of urgency, it's really not acceptable that they take 10 years on average to review a case.

I know the wheels of justice turn very slowly in most cases, but this has highlighted just how bad it is. There will be (potentially innocent) people sitting in prison right now, stuck in that system. The CCRC wouldn't be looking at their cases if there wasn't some chance they were innocent.

I cannot imagine many cases reach them, so why does it take so long? Clearly they're very understaffed/under funded. As is most of the CJS. It's easy not to think about when it's not affecting us personally, but it doesn't inspire faith in the system.

TuesdayRubies · 14/02/2025 13:06

Totally agree, @DancingLions. It's absolutely appalling, and so unfair on those who have suffered a miscarriage of justice. Our legal system seems to view itself as infallible -- otherwise, there would be more focus on improving this ridiculous, extremely slow situation.

AntiSocialMedea · 14/02/2025 18:48

springtimeconcerts · 05/02/2025 22:09

This isn’t really a ‘gotcha’, is it.

Because even if exonerated of all charges, she isn’t going to nurse again, she isn’t (likely to) work ever again, she probably won’t leave her parents’ house much again.

Her life is ruined and that’s the tragedy of it all.

I think she might have to move abroad. She will always be looking over her shoulder in the UK. She may alter her appearance. She's certainly due a hefty pay day if innocent but even that won't give her her life back. Having said that, Maxine Carr has managed to remain fairly anonymous and she has a partner and child. I know she wasn't accused of murder but can't think of another female who was vilified and released.

ThatsNotMyTeen · 14/02/2025 21:01

AntiSocialMedea · 14/02/2025 18:48

I think she might have to move abroad. She will always be looking over her shoulder in the UK. She may alter her appearance. She's certainly due a hefty pay day if innocent but even that won't give her her life back. Having said that, Maxine Carr has managed to remain fairly anonymous and she has a partner and child. I know she wasn't accused of murder but can't think of another female who was vilified and released.

Why can’t she continue to see out her sentence in a British prison?

why would she need to go abroad?

NeverDropYourMooncup · 14/02/2025 21:43

ThatsNotMyTeen · 14/02/2025 21:01

Why can’t she continue to see out her sentence in a British prison?

why would she need to go abroad?

Um, because the poster is talking about IF she is exonerated of all charges. That is, if she's found to have not committed any crime because it was either pure natural causes or a combination of that and a poorly run and resourced hospital unable to accept they were not competent/equipped to provide the standards of medical care those babies deserved.

If she's then released, she's going to have a lot of people still gunning for her (and not just figuratively). So she could need to leave the country for her own safety.

Mingenious · 15/02/2025 06:59

If this is found to have been a massive miscarriage of justice I have no idea how she’d be able to move on from that. I expect her mental health is in absolute tatters.

Thankfully, she’s been inside for so long I expect her appearance has changed a bit so she may not be easily recognisable, and I would hope there was some legal way to stop the media hounding her.

MikeRafone · 15/02/2025 08:45

Mingenious · 15/02/2025 06:59

If this is found to have been a massive miscarriage of justice I have no idea how she’d be able to move on from that. I expect her mental health is in absolute tatters.

Thankfully, she’s been inside for so long I expect her appearance has changed a bit so she may not be easily recognisable, and I would hope there was some legal way to stop the media hounding her.

whilst it is nice to speculate on freedom if there really hasn’t been any murdered babies. The system hasn’t even got to an appeal

dont put the cart before the horse

onwardsup4 · 15/02/2025 08:57

@MikeRafone the poster said if this is found to have been a miscarriage of justice and made a perfectly valid comment.
@ThatsNotMyTeen do catch up. You're being deliberately obtuse and ignorant now.

onwardsup4 · 18/02/2025 11:44

Statements from the nursing colleagues are now being made public via the Thirlwall inquiry. Every single one of them says they had no suspicions or any concerns about Lucy's conduct or care. Several state how hard working efficient and caring she was. Also statements about the plumbing and cleanliness, dirty water dripping from ceilings near to where very poorly babies were being nursed.
Just wow

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 18/02/2025 11:46

It's about time that came out, isn't it. and that her colleagues were allowed to speak out.

onwardsup4 · 18/02/2025 11:50

x.com/MySweetLandlord/status/1891782310963429754

Kittybythelighthouse · 18/02/2025 11:58

onwardsup4 · 18/02/2025 11:44

Statements from the nursing colleagues are now being made public via the Thirlwall inquiry. Every single one of them says they had no suspicions or any concerns about Lucy's conduct or care. Several state how hard working efficient and caring she was. Also statements about the plumbing and cleanliness, dirty water dripping from ceilings near to where very poorly babies were being nursed.
Just wow

Yes, I saw these last night. They’ve been taken down this morning. Probably because Thirlwall didn’t redact all the names that were meant to be redacted. The CoA did the same thing with the first appeal decision - forgot to redact the names of Drs A and B in the first upload. They’ll pop back up once that’s fixed I’d say.

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onwardsup4 · 18/02/2025 12:03

Oh I see that's why I couldn't find them on google. The statements are all over twitter though

TwentyKittens · 18/02/2025 12:11

Also statements about the plumbing and cleanliness, dirty water dripping from ceilings near to where very poorly babies were being nursed.

Those poor poor babies.

Clarifier1 · 18/02/2025 12:16

You have to wonder why Letby allegedly did so many online searches concerning the dead babies and their parents, allegedly kept shift records she had no business bringing home, and allegedly incriminated herself in writing as 'evil'. What are your explanations for this strange behaviour?

Kittybythelighthouse · 18/02/2025 12:18

onwardsup4 · 18/02/2025 12:03

Oh I see that's why I couldn't find them on google. The statements are all over twitter though

Parts - I haven’t seen anyone post the whole documents. Have you? They will go back up anyway. Posting them including the names that should be redacted could by in contempt of court, so I wouldn’t advise anyone to do that. They’ll be back up eventually.

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GoBackToTheStart · 18/02/2025 12:32

Clarifier1 · 18/02/2025 12:16

You have to wonder why Letby allegedly did so many online searches concerning the dead babies and their parents, allegedly kept shift records she had no business bringing home, and allegedly incriminated herself in writing as 'evil'. What are your explanations for this strange behaviour?

Perhaps read the extensive and numerous threads already available which address each of these points in detail if you would like explanations

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 18/02/2025 12:37

Clarifier1 · 18/02/2025 12:16

You have to wonder why Letby allegedly did so many online searches concerning the dead babies and their parents, allegedly kept shift records she had no business bringing home, and allegedly incriminated herself in writing as 'evil'. What are your explanations for this strange behaviour?

I don't have to wonder. I have read detailed explanations for these things on this thread and the one before it, and have no questions I feel need answers.