Lucy Letby press conference

[Viviennemary]

There is a press conference going on now trying to get Lucy Letby's conviction overturned. From what I read the guilty verdict was sound. All those ill babies dying when she was alone with them. Just a coincidence? Already been refused an appeal.

Absolutely this.

The general public is statistically not very intelligent at all. The idea of being subjected to trial by jury is quite frankly, terrifying.

Absolutely.

just a few days ago I my patients saturations fell to 72 (dangerously low) baring in my mind I had been with this patient for a few days in a row and this was it quite common for her for a moment or two after suctioning. Of course her alarm went off, I silenced and watched for a minute and it recovered, my doctor colleagues happened to walk by and gave me a thumbs up through window to ask if we were ok as he seen her sats were low, I confirmed we were fine with a thumbs up and he walked on by. No running in accusing me of murder!

She’s been struck off because she was found guilty. If she is subsequently found to be not guilty, she could appeal to the NMC to be reinstated onto the nursing register. It would be up to the NMC if she was permitted to do so.

Exactly right. Glad we discovered we are in complete agreement.

@Motherofdragons24
Thank you for posting your experience and wisdom as an ICU nurse. This kind of insight is invaluable to all.

Thank you for sharing - its important to have this perspective.

Accounts like the doctor reporting her stood over the baby smack of scapegoating in my opinion. So much of the 'evidence' against her is reminiscent of a witch hunt, looking for excuses.

Definitely. If nothing else, self interest would do it.

His work has been misinterpreted, and used to draw conclusions he doesn't agree with. This is a very high profile case, of interest outside the UK too. So it could potentially impact on him. Especially if at least some of the convictions are eventually quashed, it's easy to see how people might start to ask why he didn't speak up. He has his reputation to think of, even if he didn't give a shit about whether Letby was guilty or not.

It's a specialist unit, it would be surprising if some babies didn't die from natural causes. The fact that they do does not mean that others were not murdered.

I've asked on other threads but have never received an answer.

To those who use the "she had two trials and was found guilty, therefore she must be guilty and we shouldn't question experts / the judiciary because disrespectful", if you were in her position, or a loved one was and you or they were innocent, would you really take one for the team and say "well, it's a fair cop, guess I'm just unlucky" ?

Or would you exhaust every possible avenue to clear your name and expose errors or bad practise that undermines the system as a whole?

This whole case was a cluster fuck, for all concerned, not least the bereaved parents. They deserve the absolute truth. As does Lucy Letby and everyone else sucked into this appalling three ring circus. It's been conducted like a modern day witch hunt and the pitchfork mob are furious that their entrenched views are being thoroughly questioned and debunked.

I hope the CCRB don't hang about.

Yes exactly my point. If he was a lay person or a parent who witnessed this incident I would maybe understand why they believed it to be suspicious as they may not understand that these things are very very common. But the fact an experienced clinician who presumably experiences these situations multiple times a day and tried to persuade the jury that it was sinister was shocking to me. I appreciate I wasn’t there and he was but overall it didn’t sit right with me at all.

My take on this has always been if I was a nurse I would not be doing overtime as the more you are there the more incidents you get caught up in. I also wouldn’t do any swaps for management to be helpful because they needed more experienced staff around as they were short staffed or had inexperienced Dr’s on. Lucy Letby did both.

I feel for the parents horrific for them but imagine being innocent of this .I just don't know but feel the case warrants being relooked at .
As a retired nurse I just remember having and seeing runs of deaths in areas.

Polygraphing is junk science. It has no scientific basis. Even in places where it’s routinely used in investigations, the reason it’s used is because it gives police leverage to try to get an accused to confess by making them think inconsistencies have been identified in their statement or they’ve been “found out” by the polygraph. It’s used in the US for this reason, despite not being admissible in court as proof of guilt or innocence.

Easier said than done. The pressure on nurses and doctors, and the work culture would make it difficult to refuse overtime in practice.

@liveandletlive18

Forensic psychiatrist here. Polygraphs are complete nonsense and non-science, they tell you absolutely nothing, no matter how "highly trained" you might be.

So why has it been reported UK police are increasingly using a polygraph. Surely in the hands of someone highly trained not necessarily within the police the results would be less questionable & exploitative.

It is really worth reading these articles. Thanks @MotherOfCatBoy . If it turns out she was not guilty after all, and it was poor standards of care in the hospital, it is going to be interesting to see what transpires.

Because the police do not always show good judgement?

Meanwhile the Thirlwall inquiry continues to burn through public funds

I’ve no idea why it’s been reported, and wasn’t aware it has been or who by. It doesn’t matter who carries the tests out when the basis on which they’re supposed to provide results is without scientific merit. Hence why it’s inadmissible in court. Phrenology wouldn’t become more reliable as a criminal diagnostic tool just because it was used by highly trained doctors, would it?

I can't say if she's innocent or guilty but I don't think I trust that the verdict was based on sound evidence. There were issues in the hospital due to staffing etc. that is similar across the country and sadly leads to too many unnecessary deaths every day. At least one diary example they found, many nurses have come forward and said this is normal data you'd write out for hangovers or keeping up to date on patients and sometimes you forget to throw it out before you leave.
I don't know if she's innocent of all cases, maybe she did commit some of the offences but I can't help but wonder if the trust have attempted to scapegoat her and that's led to PPS to the conclusion they reached.

The police sometimes use polygraphs supposedly because people have a belief that they work, so tell the truth because they think lying will be detected. Those higher up in the police know full well they have no validity at all. Whether the average copper knows this I don't know, possibly not. Either way, I can assure you there is absolutely reliable way to detect lying.

Polygraphs can be helpful in the same way reading body language is but it's absolutely not trustworthy/valid and therefore not valid evidence for a court case.

You can't "highly train" someone to make a non-valid testing method valid, no matter what you do!

I'm gonna get shot down by Mumsnet for this but...
It seems like they are banking on big names and ill informed public opinion to persuade the appeal court judges. Mind boggling stuff.