Question for any university employees

[MumblesParty]

Just reading the news about Cardiff uni, among others, having to make redundancies and cut courses. This is apparently due to dropping numbers of international students. Students tuition fees are £9500 per year. They have about 9 hours of lectures per week. Can anyone explain where the costs are? I’m not being argumentative, I would genuinely like to know why it costs so much to run a university. I’ve googled, and it seems the biggest cost is teaching. But I know lecturers aren’t paid much. So where does the money go?

My students are in approx 7 hours this week, across 2 days. Plus a days placement. Leaving them 4 days in which to earn money in paid employment and then learn how to manage their time accordingly across group work, research, tutorials, prep for classes and so on. More time in a classroom isn’t always right for a particular course, and doesn’t always = more value for money. That’s far too simplistic.
Others on this thread have very well explained where costs go. And yes, I am paid ‘well’ but I have to routinely work double my contracted hours to meet the needs of the role, and this is a total sector norm. A huge expense must be all the staff being paid on sick leave as they’re off with stress and burnout. I’m one of the lucky ones on a permanent contract, the precarity of employment for others is awful.

They're really not. I'm on the top of SL scale at £56k and the same job in Ireland pays €62,855 - €99,533.

lots of managers with interesting, made up titles doing made up jobs

a uni pays an absolute fortune to a tech company for a system that isn't fit for purpose and doesn't work efficiently

I raise you: lots of IT managers with made up job titles doing made up jobs whilst procuring overpriced trash IT systems.

Yes, I am bitter.

They're really not. I'm on the top of SL scale at £56k and the same job in Ireland pays €62,855 - €99,533.

Much, much harder to get an academic job in Ireland though.

Fees paid by overseas students propped up many courses, the last government changed the visa requirements, so less overseas students are helping universities meet their costs.

Agree - workloads are easily routinely 55-75+ hours depending on role and time of the year. Plus many staff are paid below the lecture scale as freelancers, associates or teaching assistant/associate staff to save money. Lots of teaching done by postdocs and postgrads for less than minimum wage in many cases.

Lots of factors. Universities have very high labour and maintenance costs, and fees have not risen in real terms since they are introduced. Brexit has been a disaster for STEM fields in particular, as research grants effectively subsidised other parts of the operation. Student demands in terms of feedback and welfare are going up massively. Energy costs have really impacted on university buildings since the big rise in energy prices. Universities also lost a big chunk of income during Covid from rents and other subsidiary businesses like catering and conferencing, but kept paying salaries, so even the wealthier universities are running deficits since Covid.

Yes, I know plenty of people who are likely to end their careers as lecturers. There are places where SL is about business need, not experience. So if we don't need more SLs - tough.

Not sure what your second comment means. If you're suggesting I'm making things up, maybe go off and do some research on terms and conditions in the wider sector. Have a chat with a union rep. You can see on this thread that people are pointing out your figures and assumptions aren't universal to the sector. I don't deny they are right for some places - I have plenty of experience in the sector.

I have no idea. DH is a lecturer, I'm desperate for him to leave HE. They give him a temp. Contract every year for 22 hours, he does private tutoring and evening classes to get to a decent salary. His dept. Has fewer and fewer applicants and they won't replace anyone who leaves. The students must have an appalling experience. Although it's not a great uni, and I think a lot of them are there just because...

workloads are easily routinely 55-75+

Oh, come on! This is an absolutely ridiculous thing to say. Academics frequently work 75 hours+? Get a grip.

It's probably not far off.Research time is so squeezed between teaching, prep, marling, feedback on tight deadlines, pastoral support , pointless comittees, outreach, impact etc that actually writing papers and some lab work happens at the weekends. And late at night.

maybe go off and do some research on terms and conditions in the wider sector. Have a chat with a union rep.

Yes, it's in all Prof.'s terms and conditions. Have never once heard of it happening in 15 years across the sector. Do you actually know people this happened to, or is this just an apocryphal story from a union rep?

Yep! System has been down for nearly a week now with no updates.

I think at one point Imperial were talking about setting required levels of external funding to be brought in for each grade but I don't know if it ever happened.

So nearly 11 hours of work a day, 7 days a week? Absolute bunkum.

At my Uni, the Provost role is at least £180k

I was suggesting the 55 hour end.

As a pp says above - fifteen years ago U.K. HE was one of our best and most impressive globally competitive sectors, easily pulling way more than its weight internationally, and a big draw both for researchers/staff (and grant bodies), and for students.

What happened fifteen years ago? The introduction of the full tuition fee and the removal of nearly all the old HEFCE grant from the university sector. A short term funding boost for a couple of years, and then a rapid decline. It’s quite a testament to UK academia that the plates have been kept spinning for so long.

How to destroy a whole sector in fifteen years, courtesy of our “friends” the Tories! And their bloody Brexit stuck the final knife in and finished it off.

Oohh... wonder if we work together!!

Er, yes? Do you know anything about academia at all…?

Yes, I know people this has happened to, and yes, that contingency is articulated in their terms and conditions.

The place is a ghost town come 3pm on most campuses, as academics (healthily) go home and collect the kids, make dinner, etc. before doing some more hours in the evening.

I personally prefer to not do this (I use after school care), and work til 6 every day in the office, so that I can avoid working in the evenings. Working 9-6 every weekday is enough to have a fairly stellar career. Most academics are not in the office or diligently wfh from 9-6. It is a very flexible job.

I've worked at a university (in admin so I see HR and finance etc) for 20 years and have never heard of a professor getting downgraded or fired. Is this really a thing elsewhere? Would solve plenty of problems...

Er, yes? Do you know anything about academia at all…?

I am a (very successful) academic.

Nobody is working 75 hour weeks.

Are you kidding, or are you writing to us from 1975 or something?

Yes, I know people this has happened to

Oof, that's really harsh. Poor them! Were they really underperforming? We do get a lot of "coasters" at Prof level.