Should ‘British’ kids be pushed a bit more?

[Bloodybrambles]

Following a conversation with my sister on how not one of our peers went on to become a doctor/dentist/engineer/research. Out of a couple of hundred students, I can only think of three that studied nursing/midwifery and a handful wanted to do teaching. A few of the ‘clever’ kids went on to do graduate schemes/roles and currently sit in middle management positions.

Our conversation was us having the same thought in school of our country being screwed by looking at our cohort. We’re lucky to have immigration as if the majority of our year flukes the exams and became a doctor, they either wouldn’t have a pen to do the prescription or arguing about having a dress code.

My career advice was somewhat like ‘you’re doing well in your A-levels, you like sport, you should study Sport Science at uni’.

Why on earth wasn’t we encouraged to do something useful? Surely as a country there should be some kind of drive to guide kids into doing something useful for society.

I just looked at the links. The low achieving schools are basically all special needs schools and Michaela's school actually had only about 10% low achieving students (less than 100 in SATS) entering the school and nearly 50% high achieving students (more than 110 in SATS in Year 6). Why are so few low achievings students going there? Are they all "weeded" out?
So it seems that it is much easier to make good students even better than improve weak students which is not that surprising.

I do see your point. However most of us can see that the boys who never turned up to school are out earning most who went to Uni because trades are now far better paid. While I know money isn't everything, this can't be helping our kids to be enthusiastic about studying. Most people want to learn to a point but also need money in the bank.

Aren't degrees like medicine and dentistry quite oversubscribed?

^

First reply= negativity

This is why British kids aren't pushed!!!

Fields like medicine which require A LOT of dedication and effort, struggle to attract people despite their importance.

This isn't true, medicine as a degree course is oversubscribed (ie, a popular choice).

I think the problem is more that these "useful" courses struggle to retain students, rather than struggle to attract them.

It's not an ambition issue, it's a resilience issue, among our young people. In my opinion.

Have you seen the drop out rates for some of these vocations? Teachers dropping out of the profession very quickly after being trained, for example.

Edit to add - I'm a teacher myself so I know it's tough. That was just an example.

@NordicwithTeen And that’s all fine and well—we absolutely need all professions, tradespeople, specialists, the whole lot. I’m not saying that trade fields are worse or that universities are inherently better, but how many young men and women find themselves in jobs they took simply because they needed work and money, not because it was something they truly wanted to do? The reality is, many of these individuals are probably not happy in their careers. We all know people like that—stuck in the wrong professions, going through the motions, and feeling unfulfilled. It’s a widespread issue, and it highlights the importance of guiding young people toward careers that align with their passions and potential, rather than settling for what’s available in the moment.

If you know of any Yr 12 students (Yr 13 NI S5 Scotland) who need help/direction re choice of degree etc Sutton Trust has free 1 week
Summer Schools (40 different subjects) in 12 top unis. Travel, food, tuition, taster sessions at Undergraduate level, help with personal statements, etc all free. This is specifically to help those disadvantaged so eg no one in family been to Uni, student been in care, from deprived area etc. ( I believe Wes Streeting MP attended a course.) They also do online courses I think.

It's fine to encourage your children to do their best but ultimately we need to question what it is for. My parents were very supportive and just a little bit pushy of me at school and, after getting very good grades and a very good university degree in one of these "tough" subjects and enduring 10 years of working 15-20 hour days in a very demanding job, the demands of motherhood and undiagnosed ADHD (which I had successfully masked for years) left me completely burnt out and since then I've only been able to work part-time at something quite different (and consider myself lucky that this was financially possible). I'm very grateful for all the support I've been given in life, but can't help feeling that I might have ended up more successful had I been pushed a little less and encouraged to take time to get to know myself and my limitations (and conversely what inspires me) a little more. And ultimately pursued a career that would have fitted in with these a bit better.

I will not be pushing my children into subjects and careers for which they have no passion because ultimately an entire academic and working life is too long to expect anyone to successfully "mask" their disinterest and overwhelm without a severe impact on their mental health.

I will not be pushing my children into subjects and careers for which they have no passion because ultimately an entire academic and working life is too long to expect anyone to successfully "mask" their disinterest and overwhelm without a severe impact on their mental health.

Not picking on you, but with rising COL and a competitive job market plus AI, unless you are quite rich and can help them and leave a good chunk of inheritence, children have to understand that they have to work to support their lifestyle, and it's OK to not have "passion" for what you do, you should just be good at it. Most high paid careers are not passion-inducing after all, they are challenging and cumbersome and require long hours.

@LoraPiano . I agree that all children should be raised to understand the need to support themselves financially, but better a lower-paid career that is sustainable and compatible with family life than a highly paid one where the demands are ultimately simply too much.

My parents pushed me, I was bright and university was expected, I never considered an alternative. A grad scheme was the norm and my friends all went into law, accountancy, medicine etc. I saw it in my parents, their friends and my friends parents

i have pushed my own kids too. Complacency isn’t something I tolerate. They don’t need to be the best but they need to be their best. Being exposed to a like minded peer group helps too.

I always say keep your options open. Get decent GCSE’s at the highest level you’re capable of, do your A levels when you get those grades and go to a good uni and do something solid. I only encouraged Russell group (plus St Andrews, Durham, Loughborough etc that are similar. ) Regardless of what some people say, recruitment is often not blind, and you lay yourself open to all options

if after that you want to do whatever you want to do, that’s your decision. My job is done

“I've never supported the "oh just let them be happy grades don't matter" mantra.”

Good grades and happiness are not mutually exclusive; we need to work on wellbeing and academics.

This is not true.

However, many schools and colleges don’t pay for qualified Career Advisors

I think British kids are pushed - but at totally the wrong time.

They are pushed in Yrs 1-6, then it slackens off at secondary and no-one seems to give a shit by the time GCSE's hit.

They should be easier on them in primary, just encourage and inspire, then motivate and focus in secondary, double down in Yrs 10 and 11.

But they don't. Schools do the opposite.

Kids are burning out by age 11, sent to secondary school with anxiety, then left to their own devices from 12 onwards.

It makes zero sense whatsoever.

If they're kicking themselves when they get good results, that's not good.

Having worked in education for a few years now, we are going to be in crisis as a country in the next 10/15 years. I've had children 'traumatised' (yes, parent said that) after being asked to read a book, launch a chair across the room because they were asked to write their name on a sheet of paper, and just generally thinking they can do what they like, when they like. Teachers are on the receiving end of such poor behaviour simply by asking for the basics-I'm not sure pushing children further is going to do much good. Ultimately, it comes from home. I have always told my children that good grades and qualifications give them options in the future.

Do you also teach them that’s it’s ok to make mistakes?

Hi, can you give me some advice about where to find info for these sorts of outings? I've never heard of tecathons so I'd be interested to know more.

Love your idea of doing city trips to where unis are :) Thank you

I’m 30.

The school we went to I’d say it was painfully average with all kids attending from the area. A mixture of kids from the town and then kids bused in from local villages. Some of the kids definitely had support at home/resources compared to others.

Of course a lot of lads mucked about constantly with the promise of getting an apprenticeship with their dad’s mate. Definitely didn’t want to get into the debate that tradies aren’t useful because they are. Just that we need doctors and we’re lucky that people want to migrate here.

Just how out of a cohort of 200 (to our knowledge) nobody became a doctor, dentist, pharmacist, working on life saving cures etc.

I don’t think this is something to be proud of.

Not all questions come with a right answer. For essay-based questions, 95% is an outstanding result that means that you missed only one-twentieth of what the mark scheme was looking for.

This is a far more important lesson.

It's very much the case that medicine and dentistry are oversubscribed. That's not "negativity", it's the truth!

I went to a small (100 per year) comprehensive with a 45% a-c GCSE pass rate. I know people who went on to do dentistry, medicine, pharmacy, engineering, architecture, scientific research

Its called the BRITISH CLASS SYTEM.

Had you attended private school or attended a grammar school or the very least a state school in an affluent suburb, you would have had a different conversation.

In any other scenario, you would need parents who have middle classed aspirations who would have pushed you into these jobs, actively discouraged you following your friends, with their lower expectations.