Friend told me today…

[FairieCastel]

Her husband is working 2 full time jobs remotely. They live in the UK, so he works one in the day and then one which is US timezone. But there is crossover. Is it me or does this seem, I don’t know, fraudulent ?

I think things must be tough going for them that your not aware off for him to be working all day/ night. Give them a break OP ,everyone has their struggles and at least they're trying to overcome them. Well done to him I say.

That sounds bonkers! When does he sleep!

Where was this? In the UK? Was he working for the government? I cannot imagine a prison sentence here for something so ludicrous , and I'd have thought it would be a civil matter either way?

It's a thing isn't it? Doing two jobs almost at once? Personally I'm so knackered from one job the idea of two gives me the collywobbles. Hats off to everybody that does.

It’s an issue if either, or both, contracts require disclosure of another employer. I suppose he could get fired for cause.

If there is potential for fraud, intellectual property or insider dealing a etc, then he could have bigger issues.

Plenty of jobs pay someone to basically have their expertise at their disposal when they need it - essentially a full-time retainer. This people are often significantly under employed when things are going well, but it's all hands on deck if they are needed so they can effectively do another job during their down time and never affect their main role. Sounds like a very productive use of time to me!

None of your business. And why should it not be perfectly legal? Anyway, what's it to you? Very glad you are not my 'friend'.

The civil service view this as fraud and may fire you for it - I know of it happening to one person. It's essentially stealing time because of the overlap in working hours. If it was 9-5 and then 5-8, that would be fine but 9-5 and 3-8 would not be.

Employee contracts often have a set number of hours per week. If an employer is paying you for 40 hours then that's what you need to work. Some companies won't care as long as you deliver well but others will because they could get the same output from you for less money. If you are only going to work 33 hours for them then why should they pay you for 40?

I find it surprising how many posters here are comfortable with fraud just because people can get away with it. Suggest people who think it's completely fine to work crossover hours at 2 jobs do some reading

https://www.localgovernmentlawyer.co.uk/employment/312-employment-features/57977-job-fraud-on-the-rise-the-new-recruitment-challenge

You need a hobby or a pet to keep you more occupied and avoid curtain twitching 😁

Agree.

And I think if the responses were different, OP would have gone down the route of interfering.

I can't believe that was the thought that came into your head instead of they must be really struggling financially to have to do that and the poor bloke must be knackered. You can barely get anyone in this country to do 1 full time job let alone 2

I'm sorry, but if my friend had told me this, I would have other things on my mind?
Like why? Are they OK financially? Could I support them a little?

I don't think that the idea of it being fraudulent or suspect would creep into my mind for a good few days. My concern would be with my friend and their family and how they could be in a better financial position.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/wfh-council-workers-caught-moonlighting-government-fraud-squad-hybrid-work/

More reading. There is a National Fraud Initiative led by the Cabinet Office and this is one of the issues they tackle.

For a place where posters judge people for going shopping in their pj's everyone is very laissez-faire about fraud, which is an actual crime. All those who think this guy is doing nothing wrong, do you also apply that to the public sector workers doing it? Stealing from taxpayers for work they are not doing?

I took it as the op meaning he finishes one job then starts the other so instead of doing a 40hr week he's doing a 80hr week, not that he's doing 2 jobs at the same time. People do this all the time but usually with part time jobs such as cleaner in the day, bar maid at night

It’s not fraudulent at all. Many people work 80+ hrs a week through any number of jobs 1+

What is fraudulent is taking multiple jobs, and then under the table getting someone to do your job for you for less pay and you pocket the difference.

Certainly most companies either in employment contracts or Codes of Conduct require staff to declare other employment in case it's a conflict of interest or poses health & safety risks due to excessive hours. Failure to declare can be a disciplinary offence even if the second job would have been allowed.

Tax will be very messy and affected by whether his US company have a UK entity that pays him here or not. US Tax is notoriously complicated and the IRS relentless and in the UK HMRC will want their cut of any income received too, even if earned in work done for a company based outside UK.

Odd she told you.

Might not be any crossover, half the US is 7-8hrs behind U.K. time,
So can do U.K. job from 7-3 and then US job from 3-11 - 3pm our time is 10am Eastern, 9am Central, 8am Mountain or 7am Pacific.

@Differentstarts the OP said there was crossover.

Wonder if posters saying keep your nose out would feel the same if it was an employee of theirs? Or would people feel differently if instead of 2 office jobs, one was an office job and then the other was in a bar but the person knocked off the office job early (WFH) and then worked in the bar

Yeah but if just one of the jobs has flexible working, then it doesn’t matter if there is schedule crossover. The fraud from a crossover only happens if the employee counts time worked at one job against both jobs.

Most companies have a clause in the contract that employees can't work for another company without permission and so he is likely to be in breach of his contract. If he can do both jobs he can't be doing them well, surely. It's people like this who are ultimately going to kill wfh for everyone

Then read her posts again
She quite clearly states there is cross over

"he works one in the day and then one which is US timezone. But there is crossover."

People like this man are the ones ruining wfh for everyone. This is part of the reason some companies want everyone back in the office, so they can't get ripped off.

Yes, UK. One was a local authority job and one with the NHS. He was sentenced to two years and ordered to pay back £110,000 (which, in my opinion, he had actually earned just not during the hours they were paying him for)

there might not be an overlap if he doesn't take a lunch break during the day and employer allows him to finish earlier? I WFH and barely ever take a lunch break as I can easily just walk to the kitchen and grab something quickly and work at my desk.

I work for a local authority and someone was WFH doing the exact same role 9-5 but for 2 different LA's, they got caught because of a check on national insurance number I believe.

Im really not that bothered it's gone midnight and other people's lives really don't affect me.