Behaviour at Beavers

[KvotheTheBloodless]

I'm an assistant Beaver leader with a large pack (c.25). Kids are aged 6-8.

I'm really, really struggling with the behaviour of some of the kids - inability to listen, concentrate, stay still or keep hands/feet to themselves. When certain kids are there, the whole evening becomes focused on behaviour management rather than the planned activities.

The worst offenders, according to our records, have no SEND issues. Although I'm not a medic, I'd be amazed if that's the case, some of the behaviours are really extreme.

For those of you who volunteer with this age group, is this normal?

And those of you whose DC have behavioural issues due to SEN, do you generally inform the volunteer leaders that your DC have specific issues and provide strategies for coping with them?

I'm struggling to understand what's normal, and trying not to potentially discriminate against kids with disabilities, but it's sooooo hard sometimes!

Not normal IME. We had problems with the girls bullying another girl. We stopped that happening. We did loads of outdoor activities which probably kept them involved.

My son’s group is probs 80% boys but the behaviour is very calm, respectful and the kids all listen and participate. Don’t think this can just be blamed on “boys!”

Recruit some parent helpers. Are you allowed to suspend badly behaved children for a week say. And the expel if behaviour doesn't improve.

People saying parents would know of any SEN by now are deluded and clearly have no idea how long it takes to get a diagnosis. They may suspect and they may disclose their suspicions but they are under no obligation to do so.

Anyway, yes perfectly normal in my experience. Get a group of 6-8 year olds together in room and it will be full of excitement and running and noise. It’s kind of the point of the session. I have a child at Beavers and they love it. The chanting. The games. The activities. I have no idea who there has SEN and who doesn’t. They largely act the same.

They do have a great, experienced leader though. Never heard of him having to ‘punish’ any of them.

This is why we stopped going fairly quickly. I found the leaders had no control over the boys (some good tips here) and my very shy DS hated it. You don't get boys in rainbows etc because they don't allow it. We're going to try again when he's old enough for cubs.

I used to be a brownie leader, so aged 7-10 girls.

Their behaviour as a collective could be very disrespectful and sometimes impossible to get on with tasks.

I am a trained teacher, so whilst another leader was talking, I would circulate, standing by or separating the worst offenders. If I was the main leader, I would have gone a lot more “teacher” with my behaviour management.

I also agree it’s all in the planning though, choose a variety of activities which suit the children in front of you and adapt the plan as you go if needed I.e. if they aren’t taking a discussion seriously, move on and come back to it later or shorten it. If it’s a safety briefing tell them they can do it. Make it something less fun and they’ll soon get the picture.

Also a teacher strategy, but maybe look at the list of children as leaders, see who the ring leaders are and talk to their parents after a “bad session”. Explain you’re not sure they are enjoying it, as they aren’t concentrating/taking it seriously and it has a knock on impact on others. Could they have a conversation with their DC about this. Then if it persists, seeking advise from higher up if needed, you can ask them to leave.

My 7 year old DD is a beaver. Also on the pathway to an ADHD diagnosis.
A lot of the misbehaviour I’ve seen when I’ve done my duty help session is general disobedience. It soon stops when ‘Skip’ uses his stern voice.
I teach secondary boys though so I find it too loud and high pitched.

The majority of issues in our troop are parent related. Not checking the right number of adults are there before dropping off (some Beaver parents don’t even come in!). Not saying thank you. Not taking their turn with parent helper duty. It is, mostly, the children of these parents who are disruptive. It feels like entitlement.

My DD left because of the incredibly disruptive behaviour too. Think there was 4 girls and 20ish boys. They did do a lot of very active games but a select few did seem to ruin it for a lot and the parents just laughed it off 'better here than at home" 😱

Joined girls brigade instead and while I'm not sure I'm happy with the religious aspect (I'm atheist, she's not)., she loves it.

I was a beaver and cub leader for numerous years , mixed groups but majority boys and a few with SEN . We never had much bother but that’s because they all knew from the get go that I don’t put up with misbehaviour , if I put my hand up I expected quiet and I expected it quickly . I must say we were a very active group , lots of mix of craft weeks / hikes/ activities/ fire lighting etc so most of the kids were too busy to play up . We also had lots of filler games ready to go as I can’t abide it when the go to is give them a football .

Boys need lunging like horses- take them out for a good session before they’ll settle down and be sensible.

Not nearly enough people exercise children enough.

Girlguiding (rainbows, brownies, guides, rangers) is single sex so there won't be any boys. Only scouting decided to go mixed sex.

As a rainbow leader, we've also had a problems, particularly post pandemic. I agree with pp about burning off some energy at the start. How many adults do you have? We never really achieve much if we try and do whole unit activities - wherever possible, we set things up in "stations" with a small group + adult for each little station. Makes things much more manageable. Obviously massively depends on having the adults though. For a while, we had 2 leaders for 24 brownies and it was really really hard work.

I find my Cubs behave better (boys and Girls) when we let them loose outside. Especially in winter, they just aren't getting enough fresh air and exercise

Also working in small groups if you have the leaders for it

This is a myth perpetuated by a psychologist who wrote a book. Adrenarche does happen around this age in both boys and girls. This is when the adrenal glands start to gradually increase DHEA (a precursor hormone) production but until gonadarche at the beginning of puberty boys don't have the ability to have a 'surge' in testosterone.

Behaviour has gone to the dogs (or the Beavers) just about everywhere, Clubs, school, sin restaurants, on public transport. It has just got ridiculous.
You expect a bit of 'banter' and silliness with a bunch of boys all together when they have been in school all day, but they should have some basic manners and stop when instructed and should not be disrupting the session to the point the other children don't enjoy it and the leaders don't enjoy being there.

I was on the Tube the other day- Three children running riot, the mother was nose down in her phone, oblivious.

A passenger ( perhaps a teacher?!) told one of the kids to behave- ( kid was pole dancing and flailing her legs around)
The kid looked insolent, but the passenger stood up and said something to the kid who looked sullen and went back to sit down.

I was well impressed, and wish I’d heard what was said to the kid.
The parent was completely oblivious.

I'm a unit helper at brownies, we have 24 girls and they can be like this too.

Often they don't listen, talk back with sass, purposely make a mess with crafts (such as trying to paint their skin/clothes) endlessly whisper and fidget, throw themselves around and roll on the floor. There was a phantom tap turner on-er at one point. We have to watch them closely to avoid shenanigans and when they are in a particular mood it's exhausting and exasperating.

It's just the way it is.
Some meetings are great, some are tough, but all the girls who stick it, no matter how rowdy, end up simmering down eventually and maturing as you would expect from a child whose been growing up in front of you for 3 ish years.

There really isn't.

My friend works in a restaurant, carrying dishes that have literally just been taken out of a 350+ degree oven. You would know it if it landed on your head. Last week she told a child who was racing about to please sit down at the table, and guess who was the one told off by the arsey parents.

I was hopping mad too when a child totally disrupted the two minutes silence in church on Remembrance Day. Absolutely furious. And nothing was done about it.
Rant over (for now)

I volunteered and only lasted a term. They were so loud and definitely lacked a respect for each other, the hut and us volunteers. It wasn’t enjoyable so I finished.

Id say about a third were lovely kids. Loud at times but listened and enjoyed the activities. One had diagnosed ADHD and was fairly easy to manage as we had a plan in place and despite struggling with focus, he was a lovely little one.

It’s the cocky ones I struggled with. They think they know best and lack respect for anyone. Clearly no boundaries or perspective at home, they want to only hear their own voice. I didn’t volunteer to spend my evening telling kids off.

I do agree you have to establish 'the rules' - however you interpret that - from the start, and I would also explain to parents before any child starts that you are volunteers and you are not prepared to continue running Beavers if the youngsters can't behave.
If you 've got to the stage where session after session is being ruined by poor behaviour, then I would ask all parents to come to a meeting (say 15mins before the usual end time) the next week and explain that to the parents, with the boys and girls there.
Decide (with your GLV) on the system you are bringing in - warnings, and then having to miss a session, or whatever you decide - and say that is what you are going to implement from now on.

But also, have a think about if it is wise to run a colony with 25 Beaver in it.
Most in our District limit is to somewhere between 16 and 20.

How many Leaders do you have ?

Bad behaviour is generally down to the parents.
The mother on the tube 🚇 nose down in her phone while her hellions showed off - WHY didn’t she tell them to behave?

She didn’t even look up.

Parents should be teaching basic manners, how to behave in public without being disruptive, plus taking them out for good exercise!

My son ( now grown) if there has been a wet break because of weather at school would come out literally galloping sideways like a colt on a cold day-
I’d have to give him a long hard run and then he’d settle.

Most behaviour could probably be improved with lots of exercise- running, cycling , horse riding- Being indoors all day is not good for boys in particular.

I have been a leader in a boys-only youth organisation for the last 21 years and the posters here stating that this is just how boys are when they're together are completely wrong.

Our group is in an area of high deprivation, lots of home issues, lots of personal issues and a high level of SEND. We have boys from 5yo to 18yo, split into three different age-based sections. When our boys are with us, there are very clearly-communicated expectations with consistent praise for those meeting the expected standard and reminders/support when others don't. These become an important part of our culture and our boys respond really well to the security of knowing what is expected of them. A lot of it, at the core, boils down to respect, both in how we treat them and how they treat us.

I've volunteered with beavers for 10 years. Yes behaviour can be a problem but I agree you need to burn off their energy first.

It helps that our leader was a primary school teacher and took no shit from anyone!

But some kids just aren't ready. My own DS wouldn't have coped with beavers (NT but young for his age) and so I didn't send him until he was cub age and he loved it.

If your kid doesn't cope then please stop sending them. We had several families that used us a free childcare service despite the fact their kid just clearly wasn't coping. It doesn't suit everyone.

There is no particular surge in testosterone in boys aged 6-8 this a complete myth touted by those looking for an excuse for boys poor behaviour.
You hear it all the time, 'boys will be boys' etc. They are only boisterous if parents have let them be