What would actually make you LTB?

[GiveDemARun]

If you’re in a long-term relationship with children and a house etc, what would actually make you LTB?

I’m curious as I’ve asked for advice here a few times when DP has done something to upset or annoy me (under different usernames so as to not out myself) and, true to MN nature, the (well-meaning) advice is often to LTB. DP and I are not married but have been together for almost 20 years and have two children. I’ve always thought LTB was extreme but sometimes I wonder if I just accept too much shit?

So, if you have a family with your DH or DP, what would be the push to make you LTB? Does being married impact that?

I did LTB. We were together for around 25 years. Shortly after DC1 was born, his behaviour changed. I wasn't happy but it felt like a bad idea to leave. In 2022 my GP told me that his behaviour was domestic abuse - I had no idea and had been assuming w were just incompatible and it was 50% my fault. It took me over a year, and help from both Women's Aid and my GP, to leave but I eventually did it in 2023. By then both DCs were at uni.

Infidelity or violence

Rudeness
Disrespect
Not pulling his weight
Misogyny
Cheating

I absolutely would leave if DH was constantly rude to me. I deserve better than that and it isn't an example I'd want my DC to grow up thinking it's normal.

There’s a phrase (or a book? something) I read on here: too bad to stay, too good to leave. Your situation sounds a bit like that – he does a hell of a lot, you love him, it’s a good life, but… the rudeness and eye-rolling and blank stares. That kind of thing grinds your soul down to its bones. But it’s a difficult one to easily leap to LTB, isn’t it?

DP is so relentlessly grumpy all the fucking time unless I cheerlead him not to be, and sometimes I look at my life and think, OK, but when do I get to take a day off being the one to lift everyone’s spirits? When do I get to have an off day? When does he stop waking up on the wrong side of the bed? But he does a hell of a lot, and once he does cheer up, he’s great. So… too good to leave, too bad to stay. A friend once said to weigh up if you have more good days than bad; leave if that balance tips.

Infidelity, abuse, extreme debt or financial mismanagement, especially keeping secrets around those things. I’d leave over those or anything that risked my children’s wellbeing and happiness. The grumpiness and my cheerleading, I’m living with. For now.

Unfaithful (emotional or sexual).
Violent
Abusive in any form
I no longer wanted to be with him

This is exactly it. I haven’t heard the phrase “too bad to stay, too good to leave” before but it sums it up perfectly.

In the women's aid freedom programme there's a diagram of signs of a healthy relationship. Pretty much the type of thing you've listed above in your first paragraph (there wouldn't be rudeness though, that's not ok). The caption at the top says

"it's not a saint that you are seeing, just a decent human being".

Don't put him on a pedestal and idolise him for what should be considered basic levels of decency. Perhaps you don't need to LTB if he isn't one, but you might need to split up all the same. You can love that he's a decent person without loving him for his personality. It takes more for compatibility than just two decent people. But first you need to find out if this new version of him is a blip that can be fixed or a permanent evolvement of personality. Keep a diary, make note of how you feel about the relationship daily, look back in a year and it'll be there in black and white what percentage of time you're unhappy.

He sounds unhappy in himself or unwell with depression or similar. Maybe he's just reached a phase of life where he needs to slow down a bit, but can't. That's not your fault for being ill. Also many women find themselves run ragged because eg menopause is taking it out of them, but they can't slow down because there's nobody to pick up the slack for whatever reason. His situation isn't unique or special or requiring you to give more of yourself than you're able, just because he's a man supporting his sick partner. Men don't get menopause but they do still age. Maybe he needs more support from somewhere, like hiring a cleaner or a babysitter so he can go out more/do less at home. Maybe he needs a trio to the GP. Or maybe he just needs to be honest that the relationship has run its course, for him.

I'd suggest relationship counselling to sort it out. At the moment he's maybe burying his head in the sand about his unhappiness. Things may be salvegable still if he can change his life to make it more enjoyable or he may have decided you're no longer compatible and have already mentally checked out and is just eg waiting for DC to be adults before leaving.

If things carry on as they are though, I can see one of you becoming so resentful of the other that you'll split up anyway, it'll just be who has the biggest resentment and reaches their limit first. Get counselling to explore it all and have a place where you can be honest with each other about what's going on in your minds.

You can use the sessions to decide if you both want to stay together and try to reconnect or get fundamental incompatibility into the open and negotiate the split fairly amicably before you reach the point where you totally hate each other.

Something that meant daily life couldn't continue. So yeah, if he had/ was having an affair but was hiding it well, I'd carry on. Drug use and/ or alcohol misuse, blatantly having an affair infront of the kids, them I'm out.

This shows you're already being crushed by his behaviour. You don't consider yourself equal to others, even though you are, like we all are. You think the behaviour isn't something that someone else should put up with, yet for some reason you consider yourself to be an exception who should tolerate it? Whatever the cause, his behaviour has to stop. If it doesn't, you have to leave. It's that or be destroyed.

I have suggested counselling but he refuses

Then you have your answer. He doesn't think your relationship is worth spending time and money on to improve it. He'd rather spend his time and money doing anything else. He also, with his refusal, is telling you he doesn't care if you're unhappy. That's not the mark of a good partner or a compassionate human.

We’ve been through several patches like this over the years and I always say “this one will be the last” but it never is.

Look up the cycle of abuse. This sounds like it.

When things are good, they’re great, but when they’re not I feel so anxious that I can’t even think straight.

This is signs of emotional abuse. You're responding in the way an abuse victim would. This will also be having an impact on your physical health. You have to put your own health first in life, that's not a luxury it's a necessity, especially if you have DC.

I wish he would just tell me when he’s feeling overwhelmed so that we can come up with a plan together, rather than pretending everything is fine and being angry with me for taking him at his word or trying to make plans by myself and inevitably getting things all wrong.

For whatever reason, he's setting you up to fail. He's choosing not to communicate with you.

What you're effectively saying is "I wish he would...be someone else".

If this isn't some blip for a fixable reason (and it isn't, if he won't take steps to address it or even admit there's any issues), then this is him. This is who he is and you're saying you don't like him.

Not liking someone is enough reason to leave them. It's a very good one, in fact.

Coercive control
Being told what to wear or what to weigh, or to use makeup/get treatments/ surgery
Physical violence or threat of such
Financial abuse
Demands for sexual practices involving other people
That they were a gambling addict
Or addicted to paying for OF prossies etc.
That they cheated
That they told me I had to change myself for their benefit when I know I've done nothing wrong.

@raggedbottomjeans thank you for your post. It does help to get some outside perspective on things. I have had a look at the diagram and think it’s brilliant. I also had a look at Women’s Aid list of signs of psychological and emotional abuse and I don’t think he fits most of them, thankfully. A lot of it probably is on me because I’m also so exhausted all the time and very sensitive to his moods, so it likely irritates him even more.

But you’re right, it does seem that it’s not a healthy relationship even if it’s not an abusive one. I honestly don’t know how I would cope without his support but I can’t live like this any more.

If he showed signs of turning into his toxic father I would l would leave like a shot

@GiveDemARun This sounds trite, but you genuinely would cope. You are probably underestimating the impact living on eggshells is having on your mental and physical wellbeing. I guarantee you would feel lighter from no longer being on tenterhooks around his moods and negative behaviours.

Divorce is hell.
A lot of women stay.

Thank you

Attend relationship counselling yourself, to figure that out and find a way forward. There's always a way, you just can't see what it is yet. It may look worse, on paper, than the life you have now. But it won't feel worse, it'll feel better, because you'll have freedom from negativity. It's only when you're away from the situation that you'll realise how badly it's been affecting you. Your physical health and levels of functioning may even improve a little when you're not wasting precious energy on feelings of anxiety and inadequacy.

Being sensitive to someone's moods isn't a fault. People shouldn't be having moods that negatively impacts the others they live with. They should be managing their emotions such that that doesn't happen. Someone else being in a bad mood shouldn't have you spiralling in anxiety, treading on eggshells, spending all your time wondering what has gone wrong. It shouldn't lead to you putting up with rudeness for fear of calling them out on it. If called out on it, they should acknowledge it's wrong and apologize and make a conscious effort to not do it again. You shouldn't be living in fear of "next time" or wondering how long a good mood will last.

Someone else being in a bad mood basically shouldn't affect you, beyond showing them some sympathy, giving them a hug and providing a listening ear or some space, as needed. Someone else's bad mood is not something that should leave your guts churning or cause insomnia or have you bending over backwards to try to put it right and fix things for them so they'll be happier. In other words, it's not on you to fix someone else's bad mood for them, in order to avoid their snarky comments, put downs or passive aggressive sulks.

You may not be married but all the same start getting your ducks in a row. For all you know he could be doing the same, ready to walk away at a point that's financially advantageous for him eg when there's no child support to pay. Use the counsellor to work out how to extricate yourself and build a better life.