What would actually make you LTB?

[GiveDemARun]

If you’re in a long-term relationship with children and a house etc, what would actually make you LTB?

I’m curious as I’ve asked for advice here a few times when DP has done something to upset or annoy me (under different usernames so as to not out myself) and, true to MN nature, the (well-meaning) advice is often to LTB. DP and I are not married but have been together for almost 20 years and have two children. I’ve always thought LTB was extreme but sometimes I wonder if I just accept too much shit?

So, if you have a family with your DH or DP, what would be the push to make you LTB? Does being married impact that?

Your sons learn behaviour directly from their father and so the cycle continues.

I think this it what worries me the most. I could put up with it if it was just me, but the thought of DS growing up and making someone feel how I feel when DP speaks to me the way he does makes me feel sick.

I have become a lot more chilled out as I've become older, but two things would be a complete no-no for me- infidelity of any kind (been there, Jesus Christ it's a destroyer), and also I would leave any partner who behaves as though they don't like me.

Exhaustion can be so hard.

But sometimes I say to cranky people "please don't speak to me like that".

I can relate to the chronic health issues OP, it really does take its toll on a relationship and it is so hard for both parties. I agree with previous posters - communication is so important and it seems like it’s broken down here, rather than communicating what he needs he is taking a passive aggressive stance to communicate his feelings. This can lead to resentment and contempt, it’s really important you can have these conversations in a mature way. It could be that he needs more time to unwind and de-stress. Does he recognise his behaviour and have any insight into it? That would be an important factor for me. You shouldn’t have to put up with rudeness and he needs to get to the crux of what is driving it.

Lying, cheating, abusive verbally or physically, being tight with money, unpleasant to my family and cruel to animals.

Oh and if he ever had any Left wing views.

That says a lot about you, and none of it is good.

There aren't that many things which would make me LTB if they were a one-off. Physical violence or intimidation (to me or dc), infidelity, criminal activity, illegal drug use, to name some.

The point about the allegedly harsh and unreasonable LTBs from MNers is that the majority of them happen on threads where the OP asks advice about an individual occurrence, but it's crystal clear that the man is generally an arsehole.

I've almost never seen an LTB on here that I disagreed with. I think women's bars are generally too low, not too high, and that life would be better if people didn't think they needed some kind of officially-approved, rubber-stamped diagnosis of 'abusive relationship' to justify leaving. 'He's a bit of a twat and makes my life less pleasant rather than more pleasant' is more than enough justification.

Thank you. Passive aggression is exactly it. I don’t know whether I’m coming or going most of the time. We have had conversations about it in the past and, when he’s in a good mood, he can see where things are going wrong. He’s not particularly communicative but can accept that he can be unpleasant. But those good moods feel few and far between at the moment so there hasn’t been an opportunity to speak about it without him being even more unkind about the whole situation.

Physical violence would be an instant end it. Infidelity not necessarily. I see infidelity as potentially being a symptom of something bigger that I'd want to look at the situation deeper.
Some sort of radical change in philosophy like being rabid Trump supporter or evangelical Christian would have me very much looking at ending things

I think in a LTR people are allowed go through bad patches, you have to tolerate it a bit and hope they come out the other end. If they don't you need to work with them a bit. Being grumpy or disengaged isn't good enough reason IMO to rip a family apart. I'd like to think if I became depressed or suffered with illness or a tough menopause or whatever, my DH wouldn't up and leave me. I think there is a double standard on MN where men are expected to support their partners through tough times but a woman who does this is weak should LTB.

It sounds really difficult, it’s horrible being on eggshells. Take care of yourself 💐

I don't think any of us can really say what our hard line would be until it happens only what we expect it would be.

Most will say they'd leave at the first sign of cheating and domestic abuse but it's overwhelmingly not true in reality.

People will stay a lot longer than they ever think they will for many complex reasons.

So I'd hope that I'd be able to leave if a partner was abusive.

Cheating-probably but it depends on the circumstances for me.

I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with anyone with fundamentally different values so if he suddenly went all Andrew Tate, right wing etc I think we'd be over.

If he got into cycling we'd be done. Urgh, MAMILs. 😄

It wouldn't matter to me if he did all the tasks he's doing, and more, if he can't manage to be basically nice to you. He's rude and unpleasant, because he's getting away with it.
My ex husband was partial to periods of giving me the silent treatment. I ended the relationship in the middle of one of his regular 4 day sulks. He became very chatty when he realised I meant it, bless him. Sadly he hasn't really learned anything and he still loves a sulk. Not my problem now.
I'd say cheating, and emotional abuse (silent treatment) are top of my LTB list.

This is where I struggle, because I agree with you but my goodness it’s horrible at the moment. We’ve been through several patches like this over the years and I always say “this one will be the last” but it never is. When things are good, they’re great, but when they’re not I feel so anxious that I can’t even think straight. I try to hide it from DCs but I hate to admit that they’ve caught me crying a few times and it just makes everything worse.

I wish he would just tell me when he’s feeling overwhelmed so that we can come up with a plan together, rather than pretending everything is fine and being angry with me for taking him at his word or trying to make plans by myself and inevitably getting things all wrong.

That's tough @GiveDemARun I think counselling would be good for you both. You shouldn't have to tolerate this.

I'm ashamed to say I relate a bit to your DH, I have been accused to being sulky or speaking with a tone, I never use mean words though. Sometimes i get so tired I cannot speak, and DH doesn't pick up on it and comes in chatting and I tell him I'm tired and he keeps talking and talking and I say it again in a frustrated tone and he starts shouting that I'm being rude or whatever. He thinks its all about him that I'm annoyed with him over something and am giving him the silent treatment. I want to curl into a ball and disappear in those moments, i get so exhausted and I'm not doing harm just trying to rest and suddenly I'm accused of all sorts.

We still have our issues but we are better at talking it through, DH is starting to understand that I need times of silence and alone time. I understand that I can't take my feelings out on him and that I need to manage stress or exhaustion in a better way. I have also made it clear that if I'm like this it's about me and not him. Sometimes he sends me away alone to a hotel or somewhere to get some rest and I come back a much happier person.

I have suggested counselling but he refuses. I have been alone but it’s not that helpful by myself to be honest as I can only share my perspective and what I think his would be.

I can completely see your point of view and imagine he probably feels the same. He doesn’t communicate it in the way that you have with your DH and will never admit to being tired (apparently that’s a “man thing”? I don’t know enough men to know if that’s true!) Perhaps I should try what your DH has done and book him into a hotel for the night so he can get a good sleep.

Same but 19 years. Or if DH was constantly undermining the confidence of DC. I see this a lot on MN where the DH is constantly nasty to DC or DSC wanting them to leave home before they are ready too.

Hit me or the children or the animals
cheating of any kind or suspicions of that he couldn’t explain
building up of debt
unacceptable porn viewing - I have a problem with porn and it’s one of my lines I’m not a prude and we have an active sex life but I don’t want it in my home and he agreed so going back on something like this
lying
not pulling his weight
sexism of any kind
racism of any kind
severe depression if he wouldn’t seek help for it
taking of any illegal drugs
smoking or vaping of any kind
drinking to excess
refusal to change something that really really upset me eg sometimes posters on here complain about their partners lack of work or lack of sharing mental load - I would give 3 months and then say off you trot

@GiveDemARun If he refuses to seek help and lacks insight into his rude behaviour then you are at an impasse. I’ve never heard of men refusing to admit tiredness either, my DH certainly has no issue with that! It sounds as though your DH is lacking empathy and consideration towards yourself and your children, and is ignorant of the impact his behaviour has on you all. To be honest, this would be a dealbreaker for me. Being on eggshells around someone due to their moods is verging into emotional abuse territory. The fact he is practically helpful due to your health issues does not excuse his nasty behaviour. Be very careful with what you choose to accept here, and prioritise the wellbeing of yourself and DC always.

I have a serious autoimmune disease that flares up every now and again and my DP does 80% of all homework - he has never rolled his eyes at me. Ever.

Same.

OP I think you are at risk of accepting bad behaviour because you feel guilty for having a long term health condition. It is not your fault. You don’t deserve to be spoken to so rudely that you are in tears. This is not okay.

The things that have persuaded me to LTB

• Ex tried to borrow my house deposit to give to his ex-wife

• I caught my previous ex having a fling with a mutual acquaintance.

Marriage wouldn't have made any difference. I would still have gone. I didn't want my ds growing up with his father's shabby values. So we left.

I've had a 13 year break since the last one. I'm just considering trying again now. Maybe....

Thank you for your replies. I think they’ve confirmed the uncomfortable truth that I’ve been sitting with for a while now. I suppose I have a lot of thinking to do.

If I was very unhappy and we'd talked about it and nothing changed.