Attitudes to underage/borderline relationship in the 90’s/noughties…wtf?!

[spinningbirds]

In about 2001 when I was 16, I was training pretty seriously in a sport, helped a lot by a successful older girl in the sport (17/18). This older girl appeared to be in a relationship with her female ex-coach’s ex-boyfriend, (she’d met him when being trained by her ex-coach, a several years earlier.)

The boyfriend was by this time 35. She was just 18. I was 16.

Her very nice parents somehow (?!) came around to the relationship, which I now know had started when she was 14. The girl an d the boyfriend invited me and another girl (also 16, also heavily involved in the sport) to go on holiday with 2 of them; I’d never been abroad without my parents before. The 4 of us went to Lanzarote.

I think that by me and the other 16 year old being there too (we all shared a self catering flat) it made it their holiday somehow “ok’?!

I don’t have anything specifically bad about the guy to say, other than that he always treated me coldly, perhaps he knew I didn’t like him. On the first night of the holiday the other three agreed to have some drinks when we arrived. I declined, and asked for just coke… he put vodka in it anyway. I soon felt weird, and freaked out, not knowing I’d had alcohol; I hadn’t been drunk before. The three of them laughed their socks off at me, sat on the bathroom floor of the flat in confusion, feeling sick. Only a long time later that evening did they confess the trick. Haha.

Anyway the holiday was fine, the couple had separate bedrooms but engineered plenty of alone time…

24 years later, this whole thing makes me feel creeped out. What was my mum thinking sending me on holiday with a bloke nearly 20 years older than us? Were times so very different in 2001?

For the record, the couple are still together. My mum said today she think they actually started dating when the girl was 13. But they’ve built a life together now, so that’s ok, isn’t it..

Anyway the whole thing makes me feel creepy AF, does anyone else have crazy shit like this from 20 years ago/could you give me some therapy to feel less weird about it?!!!

Regarding older boyfriends. I was a teen / young 20s in the late 70s / 80s. The oldest bf I ever had was only 3 years older but most of my friends married (in the late 80s / 90s) men around 5 years older. Maybe I didn't see the lure of an older man because my dad was about 18 months younger than my mum. I think it was about wanting a man established in his career, though we all had our own careers anyway - hangover from an earlier era maybe.

Parenting then was much more hands off by that age (mid teens on) than it is now. My parents were great but didn't advise me over exam / career choices - that was seen as my decision entirely. They didn't take me to visit universities- no one's parents did, we got there under our own steam. There was one dad on one of my visits and I remember thinking how utterly embarrassing that was for his son. I don't think a lot of parents would have interfered with their children's relationships as they'd be seen as able to make their own decisions, certainly from 16, if not earlier.

Also the idea of systemic sexual abuse just wasn't around. I recall being amazed that people might sexually abuse their children. People just didn't have the extensive knowledge we have now - only sources were news broadcasts, books and newspapers or the people you knew in real life.

I was at secondary school then uni in the 90s. Title referred to 90s/00s.

When I went to University in the early 90s, 3 of my 6 flatmates (all female aged 18) had boyfriends at least 10 years older than them (so late 20s/30s). One had been with her 'boyfriend' since she was 14 and he was 25. I remember at the time finding it a bit odd but none of their families seemed to have any objection and I felt I would be seen as a prude if I told anyone that I found it a bit iffy. The general consensus was that they were lucky to be with someone old and with a 'proper job' (rather than being students with limited funds) who took them out to nice places, paid for holidays etc. I now have a DD of a similar age and I would be horrified if she and her friends were dating men in their 30s, especially men who had their own homes and proper grown up jobs during the week but chose to spend their weekends hanging around student accommodation with loads of teenage girls.

The most bizarre situation that I remember being accepted in the 80s/90s was when a local school decided to open it's 6th form to any adults. Unsurprisingly, not many adults took up the offer and those that did were mainly older teens. But I had a friend who went to that school and started dating a man in his late 30s who was in 6th form when she was in her GCSE year. I can't believe that even then no-one realised allowing adults to join a school as pupils and hang around with all the kids at lunch breaks, go to drama clubs etc would attract predatory men.

Because they can and the media always portrayed the older men as playboys etc. Rod Stewart was prob a prime example in his heyday. Isn't Mick Jaggers gf in her early 30s?
Rod even had a song in 1976 called Hot Legs which could have been his anthem. He asks in the song 'Are you still in school?'

I’m so sorry you were groomed and abused.

You were so young, it wasn’t your fault.

Thank you for sharing this here - I want you know that you still have opportunity and potential in your life, you’re only 60.

You can find a life away from that man, you don’t need any man in fact - you are wonderful just as you are .

I hope you can reconnect more meaningfully with your daughters, and maybe they can help you find a new life on your own terms. I wish you all the best x

Yes, speaking personally I didnt have a boyfriend my own age when I was a teen, from 15 upwards, I had older boyfriends, in their late teens or early 20s, that was the group of friends I hung out with and so did my friends, they had cars and their own flats, we went clubbing together. I didnt want some snotty spotty 15 year old at school as my boyfriend. I wasnt abused or groomed neither was it inappropriate.

I was 16 in 1996. My boyfriend was 26.

I was living on my own and working though. Times were different then still for a lot of people. I moved to London, rented a bedsit from some advert in a shop window, got a job. Even London was cheap then.

All my boyfriends were always older than me. I wasn’t interested in a school boy when I was out working.

I got married at 22, but he was 27, so not exactly a massive age difference.

I am still actually very good friends with a couple of older boyfriends I had as a teen, one is my children’s godfather.

We’ve spoken about the age difference over the years abs they are both horrified looking back. They have their own daughters now and say that they would be so upset if they had a ten year age gap boyfriend in their teens.

But even the 90s, it was different. They were all lovely guys. I never felt exploited, abused or groomed.

It was inappropriate.
I would be raising any relationships like that I find out about at school with our DSL.
One of my Year 13s has had to raise such relationships with the safeguarding lead in his workplace out of school.
There IS a power imbalance. And what on earth does someone in their early 20s at university see in someone in Year 10 or 11????

It wasnt inappropriate, you dont get to decide what is appropriate in someone elses life!

You can refer such situations now, but not all of them will be inappropriate, Ive chaired a huge number of strategy discussions on this and sometimes it is completely inappropriate because the girl is at risk or has suffered harm. Sometimes there is no evidence of that, simply that others feel uncomfortable

The police wont take any action in a case where there has been no allegation of rape/unwanted sexual behaviour even if one party is under the legal age of consent. If there is evidence of sexual behaviour but the party is 15, and says it was consensual, the police wont take action either. Different if one of the parties is younger of course.

When I was home from Uni (early 90s) I was 19? My mum set me up on a blind date with someone she worked with - looking back he must have been early 40s
Why I agreed I have no idea
I remember we went out for a meal and he wore cowboy boots
At the end of the date he did try it on but I brushed it off
He rang a couple of days later (on the house phone !!) and spoke to my mum but I refused to speak to him - thank goodness
A different age ?!

Doesn’t stop it being inappropriate because the police don’t take action. I stand by that.

Always 100% inappropriate.

No I wasnt necessarily linking the two together, I was following up on you saying you would refer it to your DSL who may or may not refer it to us who may or may not have a discussion with the police about it.

But, I didnt come to harm, I wasnt being harmed, I wasnt at risk of being harmed. So in what way was it inappropriate. You have just made that judgement by way of the ages. And that is a modern view, that may well change back in years to come

The problem with debates and discourse on any subject like this, human values, human interactions is that we think we are the arbiters of 'correct think' right now, nothing can be as good as what we have now, everything that came before was wrong or 'inappropriate' and the way 'we' do things is the right way.

That is a flawed way of viewing the world. And i can tell you will change again over time.

I think a lot of parents thought their dad settling down early with an older boyfriend was protected from the chancy world of dating.

A 16 year old with a 23 year old boyfriend, going steady, intending to get married, was safer than a girl going out with friends, ‘playing the field’, meeting a variety of boys and at risk of one of them taking advantage.

And again, lots of us dating these older guys weren’t sexually active.

I do think there was less expectation of sex though. I know if I said I wasn’t ready most boyfriends respected that and didn’t push it. Mostly I didn’t even need to say that, it was all very slow. When I did have sex I was over 18 and it was me asking.

my friends going out with older men often didn’t sleep with them until they’d left school. Staying over was a massive thing and rarely done. There was less porn and it was harder to get so mostly of us hadn’t even heard of anything outside oral and straight piv.

generally most lost their virginity at uni, when they had more freedom, living away from parents.

yes it did happen, but the ones I know did have quite a lot of control in the relationship.

perhaps now with the expectation of sex, rise of porn and the normalising of sex in and out of relationships contributed to why our views have changed.

My boyfriend when I was 16 was 24. This was in 2008. My mother encouraged it! She wanted me to move in with him!

@mummysontheginalready I am so so sorry that those things happened to you.

Circa 99/2000 I was 18, my ex was 38.

My excuse for a mother seemed to have no issues with it

I was above the age of consent and nothing non-consensual happened, but fucking hell

I look back and wonder 1. WTF was I doing and 2. Why did she have zero issues me being with someone who was her own age?

@soupfiend No thankfully that view will only ever go in one direction now, it will never become appropriate or acceptable again.

Those aren't the only teo options..

two*

There's a lot of mentions of 'it wasn't seen as predatory, so it wasn't predatory' and 'it was normal, we can't judge by today's standards' on this thread, but i would bet my house on the fact if you asked one of these men, who were 28 dating a 16 year old, how they would feel about their 16 year old daughters dating a 28 year old, they would say it was wrong.

And they might say 'yes it was different then' but any 28 year old looking at a 15 year old and not seeing how much of a child, how much of a teenager you still are at that age, and not being put off by it, has something bloody wrong with them. They couldn't find ANYONE their own age or closer to date? Really?

Imagine being a woman in her 20s dating a 16 year old boy? Feels wrong doesn't it? Feels cringey, ick, inappropriate, wrong. It's no different the other way around.
Men who find teenagers attractive are always wrong uns.

When she was 23, an acquaintance was having a "fling" with a recently turned 16 year old boy. There had been a lot of inappropriate chat/sexting etc from a full year before when he was 15. She thought it was ok because she herself had never had been able to have penetrative sex (vaginismus). They did pretty much everything except penetrative sex and she'd be quite aggressive and rough with him when she'd get frustrated at his inexperience/immaturity.

She was someone who was deeply manipulative, evil even. Supremely narcissistic. Men her own age would dump her quite quickly. She knew she was in the wrong with this boy but she'd never been adored or lusted after like that before so she felt justified. It was absolutely a case of narc supply with that young lad.

Really nasty piece of work. This was in 2006/7.

Did I mention she's a secondary school teacher? The kids all hate her!